Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

That is the great question for our time.
Why does the Left hate what made us great?
Answer: because they don't view Western Civilization as Great....Obama doesn't, nor does the left. They view income inequality as more important than individual freedom and liberty, in essence, they are apposed to everything Capitalism, the Free Market, and Freedom stands for. They tried Communism, Socialism, and those didn't work and solve the problem, so now their movement is the Green Movement, because who can be against saving the planet right? But now think about it...what personal freedom are the Green pushing? Nope, the individual is second to the greater good and society....bingo again.

I think this is actually right for the more hard-core factions, i.e. using the Green issue to achieve what has proved disastrous again & again with Communism, and unworkable with Socialism. Heck, even countries like Denmark & Sweden have recognized this by bringing back free market reforms. Maybe this is why Jack thinks the American Dream is alive & well in those countries?? I'm more comfortable with those who want a more highly regulated capitalist system (although still a bad idea) than I am with the Green crowd, although at least a few are honest about their true agenda.

Then there are those who seem to have no grasp of basic economics, are remarkably naive about politics, and so have to keep asking what harm could come about from following the MMGW agenda. Not sure what else there is to say that hasn't already been said, at least on this lengthy forum.

And finally there are those who have made the issue their personal hobby, agenda, personal identity, have achieved some notoriety, whatever. For those, there's too much invested to take another look or even question the mainstream position. Best to ignore and resume cutting & pasting. Maybe nobody will challenge it this time around, right?

You've made it clear that you think it's a total fraud, but you apparently have more scientific background than most, and some insider knowledge. At this point, I'm as skeptical as ever, but also cannot dismiss the weight of the evidence from the other side. Instead, I'll continue to educate myself so when developments inevitably occur I can be prepared. As somebody famous once said, "everyone's entitled to their own opinion, just not their own facts." If/when the facts coming out of the scientific community change, then so will my opinion, if warranted.

In any event, I think this explains why so many who support the MMGW agenda cannot even tolerate minimal dissent from what they believe (usually incorrectly) is the mainstream scientific "consensus." As you've pointed out, trying to have a rational debate is akin to trying to tell someone with religious beliefs that what they ascribe to is not just a matter of "faith."

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Income inequality is associated with a lack of social mobility, less freedom to rise in economis standing.

What exactly are you free to do? Not increase your personal standard of living.

You forgot high tax burdens and overall costs of living, also associated with a lack of social mobility. Or do you still believe that a ride on the Calgary commuter train is really "free?"

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Income inequality is associated with a lack of social mobility, less freedom to rise in economis standing.

What exactly are you free to do? Not increase your personal standard of living.

Nope...you are equating equality of outcome with equality of opportunity...sorry my socialist/marxist friend...they are not the same thing.

No one EVER is guaranteed equality in outcome, sorry, go back to reading your communist manifesto.

Oh and I just sold a water maker to a chap in Sweden and you know what, he did what most Canadians do and had it shipped to another Country why...to save on TAXES...ha ha aha ha...do as I say...not as I do in economics AND MMGW....I love it.

The $5250 water maker will cost him about $8000 after his taxes in Sweden....oh but he has social mobility...funny stuff you say. Do you know what it costs to have a Car in Sweden?

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

You forgot high tax burdens and overall costs of living, also associated with a lack of social mobility. Or do you still believe that a ride on the Calgary commuter train is really "free?"

Except cross country comparisons demonstrate that your assertion has no substance. There is way more social mobility in the Nordic nations.

I have never believed it is "free" except in the free zone in our central core.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Exile

I'm more comfortable with those who want a more highly regulated capitalist system (although still a bad idea) than I am with the Green crowd, although at least a few are honest about their true agenda.

The American Enterprise Institute supports a carbon tax. They must be in on the "agenda."

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by Exile

You forgot high tax burdens and overall costs of living, also associated with a lack of social mobility. Or do you still believe that a ride on the Calgary commuter train is really "free?"

Leftists always forget about the costs of their Utopia....besides who wouldn't want to live in a State managed Utopia where now 1 in 4 swedish women will be raped! Why didn't our good friend Jackdale bring up that nice little Big Government run stat?

1 in 4 Swedish Women Will Be Raped as Sexual Assaults Increase 500% | Frontpage Mag

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The American Enterprise Institute supports a carbon tax. They must be in on the "agenda."

HA ha ha....they are you boob...wake up, they are part of the Establishment that will get to have a say in where all that fun tax money goes....hello...earth to Mc Fly, you are only making our point the deeper you dig your hole.

Ok, that's it....enough fun but I see our good MMGW Cultist friends are still posting the same junk they did back on page 5...nothing to see here of substance...but it is fun to just laugh at them.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jackdale

The American Enterprise Institute supports a carbon tax. They must be in on the "agenda."

No Jack. More likely that the AEI and the big energy cos. are only in on their own agenda, namely maximizing profits in the face of whatever govt. regulations are in place or may be enacted. You keep citing this but should really look into it further before suggesting that these interests have suddenly bought into the MMGW agenda. Naivete at its best.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by jackdale

Except cross country comparisons demonstrate that your assertion has no substance. There is way more social mobility in the Nordic nations.

I have never believed it is "free" except in the free zone in our central core.

Unclear what you're trying to say here, or even what you may be trying to imply. There are many complex reasons underlying a nation's rate of social mobility, or lack thereof. Maybe if you can explain why your latest chart shows more social mobility in Nordic nations. But please take into account that, as I've said, many of these nations that suffered anemic economic growth for decades under a purer socialist system have largely backed off towards a more free market economy. Didn't you read where the President of Denmark took offense at Bernie Sander's frequent comparos in the campaign?? Gotta love it.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Remember during the Obamacare debate, how the proponents told us that it must be good, the big insurance companies are for it...ha ha ha. In the world where Government and Business are in cahoots of passing beneficial legislation in exchange for campaign cash you are poorly served by citing the AEI's support as part of your argument. As I pointed out, it proves the point that MMGW is just about Religion and Money....and those two have been hand in hand going back to the 30 pieces of silver incident in the temple.

Government is the Solution to those that don't understand it is the problem.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Ah, that's just it.
He was using the left's talking point de jour of "income inequality" as a proxy for "social mobility", which is totally bogus. Because if everyone has the same income as mandated through Government Tax and Economic policy and income inequality is ZERO, so would be the social mobility...but you see, that is the leftists Utopia...the dream...the myth....the lie.

Why is it that the True MMGW Believers all seem to be Leftists
Why is it that the True MMGW Believers always seem to present a solution that is right out of the leftists collective playbook?

Why...because again, MMGW isn't an Environmental movement, it is a political movement...understand that and a large part of the scam comes together and the scales will be lifted from you eyes.

[Dogfish]

Meanwhile . . .

A Nightmare Is Unfolding in the Great Barrier Reef

[Exile]

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Remember during the Obamacare debate, how the proponents told us that it must be good, the big insurance companies are for it...ha ha ha. In the world where Government and Business are in cahoots of passing beneficial legislation in exchange for campaign cash you are poorly served by citing the AEI's support as part of your argument. As I pointed out, it proves the point that MMGW is just about Religion and Money....and those two have been hand in hand going back to the 30 pieces of silver incident in the temple.

Government is the Solution to those that don't understand it is the problem.

Now that one is downright quotable, but I promise I'll properly attribute.

While govt. isn't always the problem, it's been recognized over the eons as one of the larger threats to a free and democratic people. Otherwise, the U.S. Bill of Rights wouldn't be a compendium of actions the govt. may not take, even if under the guise of helping the people. In fact, the entire U.S. Constitution is about a form of govt. that places limits on govt. power. This is not a question of being anti-govt. or filled with conspiracy theories, just an age-old recognition that concentrated power + unaccountability = abuse & waste. Same with any human organization that suffers from these conditions, whether it be a corporation, labor union, or a local homeowners association. This is why the type of centralized, unchecked power that Communism requires has always led to abuse & stagnation, and similarly why Communism & Socialism destroy natural human incentives, winding up serving only the few who get to control & distribute all the goods & services. Capitalism can also lead to concentrations of wealth & power, but it has proven that it can remedy itself through checks & balances, is amenable to appropriate degrees of regulation, and best serves the natural human instinct to compete, innovate, and improve the human condition. If govt. is generally a problem if not a threat, then a regulated capitalist form of it is the only one of the three that has a record of success. Not perfect, but beneficial on a relative basis.

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

Ah, that's just it.
He was using the left's talking point de jour of "income inequality" as a proxy for "social mobility", which is totally bogus. Because if everyone has the same income as mandated through Government Tax and Economic policy and income inequality is ZERO, so would be the social mobility...but you see, that is the leftists Utopia...the dream...the myth....the lie.

The problem always lies in the inevitable class of people who get to make and implement those policies. Since it benefits them but not the mass of people, it has to be imposed, either by force or coercive taxation. Either way it means a loss of freedom for the people, and is therefore incompatible with democracy, free markets, and a vibrant economy.

Why is it that the True MMGW Believers all seem to be Leftists
Why is it that the True MMGW Believers always seem to present a solution that is right out of the leftists collective playbook?

This is the biggest threat to the MMGW cause, imho, and why it has largely failed to persuade a majority of people. It is also why there has been so much resistance to a thread topic which posits that future technology will find the answers, not the "remedies" many adherents want to impose. If not, then why not embrace [U]any[U] solution that has the potential to eliminate the claimed problem. Nope, the solution has to entail the rejection of an energy source which is the basis for all the world's economies, has created the standard of living we all enjoy, and which has lifted so many others out of poverty.

Why...because again, MMGW isn't an Environmental movement, it is a political movement...understand that and a large part of the scam comes together and the scales will be lifted from you eyes.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid you are right. And their monolithic, rigid politics has diminished the credibility of the scientific community, and will continue to feed skepticism amongst many who are otherwise disposed towards helping the environment.

[XXXIII]

JAckdale, I just cannot believe a minor increase of 100ppm of co2 would be even noticed by the climate as a whole... To put it in other terms... The concentration of co2 increases .001% from 3% co2 in the atmosphere to 3.001%
and it all goes to hell?

[Reefmagnet]

Originally Posted by Dogfish

Meanwhile . . .

A Nightmare Is Unfolding in the Great Barrier Reef

Don't believe everything you read.