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Old 01-02-2016, 09:11   #2251
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

A warm brain, is a smarter brain.

We shall adapt....
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:16   #2252
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

You leave port and sail into the unknown. Embracing the unknown seems to be something of a unique human trait.

And there is some suggestion of evidence that the Earth has warmed, and cooled, just as rapidly in the past.

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Old 01-02-2016, 09:18   #2253
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
A warm brain, is a smarter brain.

We shall adapt....
I lif in da tropics an I'm a petty smart fella. But that's jus my opinion!

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Old 01-02-2016, 09:21   #2254
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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A warm brain, is a smarter brain.

We shall adapt....
In a 150 degree Celsius it will be cooked.
Bon appetit
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:33   #2255
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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In a 150 degree Celsius it will be cooked.
Bon appetit
Enjoy the BBQ. But don't hesitate to snack on the nibblies while you wait. It'll take around 2500 years if the current rate of increase doesn't abate. Which it will.

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Old 01-02-2016, 09:36   #2256
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You leave port and sail into the unknown. Embracing the unknown seems to be something of a unique human trait.

And there is some suggestion of evidence that the Earth has warmed, and cooled, just as rapidly in the past.
Yes, but not during the period of our, now global, civilization. As I keep saying, THIS is the point. It's not climate change, and it certainly has nothing to do with saving the planet. It's about us.

Evidence shows civilizations have risen and fallen due, in part, to local climactic changes. These were all much smaller than what climate science is indicating we are likely heading towards unless we do something very fast.

So we can roll the dice in the hope that we'll come up with some smartypants tech solution, which to me is like using the lottery as your retirement plan. Or we can deny the science, and pretend nothing is happened. Or we can say the he!! with it, lets party till the lights go out. Or finally, we can take our future in our own hands, and do something about it.

I'm not nearly as "progressive" as all you status-quoers out there. As a "conservative" I believe we should work with the best information and tools we currently have to do the best we can. It certainly can be done, but it takes will, and courage and yes, sacrifice. Past generations have risen to global challenges, but it seems we are no longer capable of being as great as those who have come before us.
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:52   #2257
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

I'm sure no period of humanity has ever really given a rat's sphincter over the fate of their descendants beyond 2 generations.

And no, a solution can not certainly be done. Ozone holes can be fixed, sulphates and particulates can be filtered, materials can be recycled, environments managed etc etc. None of this, however, will stop us consuming energy. We have been doing that since caveman times. So far no current technological or even sociological solution implemented even on a global scale will lead to stabilising atmospheric co2 levels, let alone decrease it. To think otherwise is nonsensical. However, in time solutions will, hopefully, evolve, as will the planet and, hopefully, most of it's inhabitants.

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Old 01-02-2016, 10:19   #2258
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I'm sure no period of humanity has ever really given a rat's sphincter over the fate of their descendants beyond 2 generations.
Agreed. Some Indigenous Peoples claim they have a five generation perspective when it comes to questions of ecosystem management. Archeological and historical evidence makes this a dubious claim, but I'm sure some think this way.

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And no, a solution can not certainly be done.
You're right. Nothing is certain. And it's not about us using no energy. It's about how the energy is produced and consumed. The Earth's atmosphere can digest a certain about of CO2 pollution, just like all other natural systems can accept a certain level of waste. We just need to bring our levels back in line with this level.

And I ask you: Can you live with less? Can you live with less than the typical Westerner? Can you live with a lot less? I bet most of us here already do. It is possible ... it's just not likely.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:41   #2259
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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You're right. Nothing is certain. And it's not about us using no energy. It's about how the energy is produced and consumed. The Earth's atmosphere can digest a certain about of CO2 pollution, just like all other natural systems can accept a certain level of waste. We just need to bring our levels back in line with this level.

And I ask you: Can you live with less? Can you live with less than the typical Westerner? Can you live with a lot less? I bet most of us here already do. It is possible ... it's just not likely.
Mike,

I hate to keep bringing up thie inconvenient fact that 10,000 years ago, the sea level was quite a bit lower, low enough to allow humans to cross over the land bridge from Asia to the Americas and hunt wooly mammoths into extinction. It seems to me, that as the atmosphere continues to warm and the sea levels rise at the alarmingly slow rate of 8 inches per century (according to Jack)... Us humans will continue to inch our way uphill from the rising waters in order to flourish and adapt, rather than die off into extinction as you and the GW followers suggest.

There's no way any society is going to go back to hunting and gathering, along with buying into some massive taxation scheme in order to "save the planet." Most of us dumb humans seem to be able to see through the political B.S. ... Just judging by the stratospheric uptick in SUV sales since the price of oil has collapsed.

BTW: I just entered my solar production data into the online monitoring system. 299 kWh in Dec and 499 kWh for January. Not even half of what we use. This confirms my suspicions... Low production when the sun doesn't shine. Who would have guessed?
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Old 01-02-2016, 13:53   #2260
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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I hate to keep bringing up thie inconvenient fact that 10,000 years ago, the sea level was quite a bit lower, low enough to allow humans to cross over the land bridge from Asia to the Americas and hunt wooly mammoths into extinction. It seems to me, that as the atmosphere continues to warm and the sea levels rise at the alarmingly slow rate of 8 inches per century (according to Jack)... Us humans will continue to inch our way uphill from the rising waters in order to flourish and adapt, rather than die off into extinction as you and the GW followers suggest.
Ken, I've never said humans will go extinct due to climate change. What I (and most other people around the world) are saying is that the real danger posed by rapid climate change is a threat to our civilization as we currently know it. Perhaps this doesn't matter to you, but I for one do not relish another dark ages.

As for your 8", well, mine is bigger . The danger of rising sea levels are most acutely felt in storm surges. And rising water is only one of many challenges a rapidly changing climate is already throwing at us (just ask the insurance companies or world's militaries about the threats they already face).

Quote:
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There's no way any society is going to go back to hunting and gathering, along with buying into some massive taxation scheme in order to "save the planet." Most of us dumb humans seem to be able to see through the political B.S. ... Just judging by the stratospheric uptick in SUV sales since the price of oil has collapsed.
Actually, most of us dumb humans agree climate change is real, and that WE are a significant cause (see the recent global survey data I posted a while ago). It's really only in the USA where the people are significantly (but still in the minority) voicing opposition. And as the research shows, the schism is cleanly delineated along party lines. Now why would that be .

Ultimately the choice to act, or not, is a political and societal one. It's not up to science to say what we should do. I recall in the Diamond book "Collapse" he outlines how some societies and civilizations have died, while others have survived. There are those who fail to acknowledge reality and refuse to change, and then become historic road kill. Others have learned to adapt and change, and these survived and thrived.

The choice is up to us.
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Old 01-02-2016, 15:36   #2261
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

It seems to me that us humans have actually done much better since the climate has warmed following the past ice age. Back then we were living in caves and hunting mammoths. Now, we're driving around in SUVs, we have indoor plumbing, indoor heat, yachts with big Diesel engines, etc. I guess I'm actually quite the fan of a hydrocarbon based lifestyle.

How can you (Mike, Jack and Lake effect) be so sure global warming will have an adverse effect on humanity? What if you guys are actually rooting for something that will be detrimental? Human history seems to show that we've done better as the temperature has risen.

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Old 01-02-2016, 16:10   #2262
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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How can you (Mike, Jack and Lake effect) be so sure global warming will have an adverse effect on humanity? What if you guys are actually rooting for something that will be detrimental?
Rooting for? Remember back several hundred posts ago, to when you started this thread - "Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years"? We just want to provide as much support as possible now to those who will actually do the job, so your prophecy is more likely to be true. Who will make it "not matter", otherwise?

I guess it's a good thing that research into and taking action against the Zika virus doesn't threaten any right-wing motherhoods or business interests, so those scientists and institutions won't have to struggle against all the same bullsh!t that climate scientists have had to. And few will scream "soshulist!" when a government, the World Health Organization, or a UN panel lays out some guidelines and steps to combat it.

... of course you could oppose it quite safely, if you want to. Zika, like climate change, will never be that much of a threat to the cruising/yachting demographic.
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Old 01-02-2016, 16:12   #2263
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

Here's a new idea for an alternative energy source:
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Old 01-02-2016, 16:26   #2264
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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How can you (Mike, Jack and Lake effect) be so sure global warming will have an adverse effect on humanity? What if you guys are actually rooting for something that will be detrimental? Human history seems to show that we've done better as the temperature has risen.
Oh those pesky scientists ... There is lots of work trying to predict the impacts. This is educated guestimation, of course. And there will be some winners in amongst the many, many losers. Island nations are disappearing, coastal cities will (are) being inundated. Current bread bask crop lands will decline. Species will migrate north and up higher. And mass exoduses of human populations will become the norm. Syria is just the warm up.

But apparently parts of northern Europe and Canada are expected to fare well with a warming climate, so don your toques, wrap yourself in the maple leaf flag, start eating poutine, and head north to your homeland my friend .
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Old 01-02-2016, 17:09   #2265
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Re: Why Climate Change Won't Matter in 20 Years

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Oh those pesky scientists ... There is lots of work trying to predict the impacts. This is educated guestimation, of course. And there will be some winners in amongst the many, many losers. Island nations are disappearing, coastal cities will (are) being inundated. Current bread bask crop lands will decline. Species will migrate north and up higher. And mass exoduses of human populations will become the norm. Syria is just the warm up.

But apparently parts of northern Europe and Canada are expected to fare well with a warming climate, so don your toques, wrap yourself in the maple leaf flag, start eating poutine, and head north to your homeland my friend .
Please name just one island nation which has disappeared over the past 30 years?

The Syrian refugee crisis is being caused by global warming? Really, you believe that nonsense? You don't think the Syrian civil war and ISIS has anything to do with the exodus? Oh my......
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