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Old 05-04-2012, 03:55   #136
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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Originally Posted by downunder View Post
4 shark attacks in West Australia since Sept 2011 certainly raises shark attack as an issue in WA.

Not sure what solution is. It is also difficult to take a solution or non solution seriously from those who are not farmilar with the area or have not dived in the area. Great Whites are quite different beasts to most other sharks.

cheers
Did the victims actually get eaten? Or just bitten?

South African sharks affectionados say that most attacks are just sharks being curious about what's in front of them. They have very poor vision, so they "touch" with their teeth - sort of like babies when learning. It's just that their touch is slightly stronger than babies'. South African guys say that most victims who die, die from blood loss and not actual bites. And according to stats, most victims survive.

Both Australian and South African came up with a plethora of devices to scare sharks off while swimming, including electrical and smell related. As I understand a lot of surfers/kite surfers, etc wear one. Might be a solution is there already, eh?
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:21   #137
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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People, get a grip. Sharks, even white pointers, are not out to get us. They come thru my area. It's a thrill to see them. I hear. I haven't had the pleasure.
Definitely not a pleasure for the divers and swimmers in WA.
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Old 05-04-2012, 04:37   #138
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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Did the victims actually get eaten? Or just bitten?

South African sharks affectionados say that most attacks are just sharks being curious about what's in front of them. They have very poor vision, so they "touch" with their teeth - sort of like babies when learning. It's just that their touch is slightly stronger than babies'. South African guys say that most victims who die, die from blood loss and not actual bites. And according to stats, most victims survive.

Both Australian and South African came up with a plethora of devices to scare sharks off while swimming, including electrical and smell related. As I understand a lot of surfers/kite surfers, etc wear one. Might be a solution is there already, eh?

With many sharks other than the Great White that is a fair comment.
Problem with G Whites virtually all sampled by GW die as they are generally large and bite horrific.

Many of surfer attacks in Queensland can be attributed to surfers surfing in spots where bait fish congregate and other species of sharks are feeding. As divers we generally rely on fact sharks don't seek out humans as food. They prefer fish. If you jump in the middle of a bait school they are feeding on they can get agro and defensive and discression is better part of valor. Most other shark species other than GW are smaller and they ocassonally make a mistake and snap at a diver and surfer wich can in some cases be fatal but many not.

Not many have survived a GW bite in Australia. Stats would be different on other shark species. A GW touch with their teeth is mostly fatal unfortunately.

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Not sure that they guys who are making money taking people diving with Whites aren't biased in their view.
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:10   #139
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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Gentlemen .................Ive read this thread for the first time and am dismayed by your collective attitude to one another and to the role of sharks in nature

Apart from the rivalry banter and insults to one another, you are displaying the typical male attitude to a situation, which as men, you feel must be controled by force, hence the calls to shoot bomb and kill sharks.

More people die in car crashes in a day worldwide than are killed by sharks in 10 years. Get that in perspective for a start

We are intelligent enough by now to realise the impact humanity has had on this planet and the ballance of life is delicate and important for all our lives.

Sharks play the vital role in natural selection and without them at the top of the oceanic food chain, the health of other species will decline, and as a result we all suffer.

Gentlemen, please think before you comment, and at least TRY to look intelligent.
I think this post can be safely filed away as: "The view from Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill".
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:26   #140
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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I think this post can be safely filed away as: "The view from Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill".

Meaning?
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Old 05-04-2012, 06:49   #141
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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Meaning?
Anjou,
I think At sea was what we call in U.S. "shining you on" (i.e. discounting your point of view as a touchy-feely woman's perspective). Personally I feel your post was spot on (except the strong male vs. female innuendo) and he was borderline rude in his reply. Perhaps his masculinity was offended when you stated, "Gentlemen, please think before you comment, and at least TRY to look intelligent."

Hope this isn't turning into another "Arrogant and Downright Mean" thread.
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Old 05-04-2012, 07:28   #142
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

Y'all have it wrong, ya know. O'course you can get the right shark and bring him to justice. You just need to see the movie Jaws!
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:39   #143
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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From the Darwinian point of view, if you don't understand something, kill it and eat it. That's not always the best reaction, but since it usually ensures that the thing you don't understand won't kill and eat you first--it's the right thing to do.

Shark's got more teeth than I do, and I have no idea if what it is going to do on a week from next Tuesday. Therefore, I kill it and eat it before it can do the same to me. That guarantees my survival. Anything else, does not.

Anyone with a better guarantee is welcome to explain it to the surfers who get mistaken for seals. As Dr. Phil might say "And how's that workin' for ya?"
Far to simplistic. There's nothing in Darwin that says eat or be eaten. Adaptation is the recipe for success of a species. If the only solution you can see is kill or be killed then you will prove to a failure when killing isn't the answer.

As it turns out sharks and the rare earth elements have an interesting relationship. Rare earth elements give off electrons very freely and sharks unhappily accept them. In proximity of each other they form a battery which is a shocking development as far as the sharks are concerned. We will likely see repellents appearing on the market using this idea. Humans are highly adaptive creatures and sharks are not. Sharks have evolved successful behaviors but humans have evolved to be even more successful thanks, not to our ability to eat sharks but, to our ability to adapt.
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Old 05-04-2012, 10:58   #144
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

I started diving in 1966 on the pacific side of the Panama Canal. I have been a PADI IDC staff instructor for more than 10 years and teaching diving much longer than that. I have been blessed with diving all over the world, including WA and Antarctica. Everything I have studied or talked to the real experts about sharks and attacks has supported the fact that what we are seeing are the "newsworthy" reports on the GW. The Oceanic White Tip is responsible for the greatest number of human loss of life, period. They have destroyed life rafts and other items to get to people. The survivors from the USS Indianapolis during WW2 had harrowing stories about these attacks. It is my experience that if you see a shark while diving, you are lucky. I have made over 10000 dives. There has never been an UNPROVOKED attack on a SCUBA diver by a shark. It has been mentioned that when you are diving and spear fishing or collecting lobster - especially at night, that you may what to watch the world around you. You are provoking the critters. I watched a diver in the Florida Keys try to pull a nurse shark out of a ledge on a reef and the third time he got the shark out he was bitten. His story was that he had been "attacked" by a shark. I begged to differ and he was pissed that someone else had seen what had happened. There are many other stories like this. Try leaving them alone.
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Old 05-04-2012, 11:06   #145
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

The species that are the most adaptable have proven to be the ones that survive the best. We have gone from adapting to making the environment arounds us change to suit our needs.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:03   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdvick
I started diving in 1966 on the pacific side of the Panama Canal. I have been a PADI IDC staff instructor for more than 10 years and teaching diving much longer than that. I have been blessed with diving all over the world, including WA and Antarctica. Everything I have studied or talked to the real experts about sharks and attacks has supported the fact that what we are seeing are the "newsworthy" reports on the GW. The Oceanic White Tip is responsible for the greatest number of human loss of life, period. They have destroyed life rafts and other items to get to people. The survivors from the USS Indianapolis during WW2 had harrowing stories about these attacks. It is my experience that if you see a shark while diving, you are lucky. I have made over 10000 dives. There has never been an UNPROVOKED attack on a SCUBA diver by a shark. It has been mentioned that when you are diving and spear fishing or collecting lobster - especially at night, that you may what to watch the world around you. You are provoking the critters. I watched a diver in the Florida Keys try to pull a nurse shark out of a ledge on a reef and the third time he got the shark out he was bitten. His story was that he had been "attacked" by a shark. I begged to differ and he was pissed that someone else had seen what had happened. There are many other stories like this. Try leaving them alone.
You make a very good point and I can see you speak from a position of experience and have a lot more expertise than do I in this area. I just find that in South Africa divers regularly encounter sharks whilst diving and that attacks are becoming more regular... Not on divers necessarily, but also swimmers ... I have encountered them whilst surfing and my mate was attacked by one on his surfboard ... Luckily got away and is able to 'tell the tale' today, but personally I feel the authorities in SA have caused this problem with allowing 'cage diving' ... There is a direct correlation between the increased number of cage dives and shark attacks. They no longer live in a 'natural environment' because we have altered that environment for them to the point that it is (relatively speaking) no longer safe to swim in South African waters.... I take these sharks very seriously every time I dive there.
I must admit that I absolutely LOVE diving in most of the Caribbean Islands where one does not consider this to be an issue ...
I would much rather live in a world without these creatures than with them.... Sadly so as I blame human influence (cage diving and the tourists that support it) for this problem!
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:13   #147
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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Originally Posted by Dreaming Yachtsman View Post
Anjou,
I think At sea was what we call in U.S. "shining you on" (i.e. discounting your point of view as a touchy-feely woman's perspective). Personally I feel your post was spot on (except the strong male vs. female innuendo) and he was borderline rude in his reply. Perhaps his masculinity was offended when you stated, "Gentlemen, please think before you comment, and at least TRY to look intelligent."

Hope this isn't turning into another "Arrogant and Downright Mean" thread.
Thanks John for attempting to explain on His behalf. I dont need to get my feet wet and have first hand experience to see how this thread looks. It is biased in favour of the classical male perspective, so pointently summed up in a lyric from a spoof Star Trek song - 'We come in peace, shoot to kill'

Enough said, im not looking for a flame or derailment of this thread but I take exception to my viewpoint being belittled because im female or not knee deep in sharks.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:17   #148
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

As an after thought, there are always two ways to look at a problem.

Has anyone considered why shark attacks might be on the rise? Could it be possible that as mankind sucks up the oceans fish in giant nets, there are less fish and more pressures on dependant animals to find other, previously un predated critters?

This is certainly bourn out by big cat and elephant forrays into villages in search of food because man has encroached on animals territory.

So is it right the solution is to kill and destroy?
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:40   #149
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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As an after thought, there are always two ways to look at a problem.

Has anyone considered why shark attacks might be on the rise? Could it be possible that as mankind sucks up the oceans fish in giant nets, there are less fish and more pressures on dependant animals to find other, previously un predated critters?

This is certainly bourn out by big cat and elephant forrays into villages in search of food because man has encroached on animals territory.

So is it right the solution is to kill and destroy?
Perhaps they should be killed and eaten?
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:49   #150
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Re: Why Are they Shooting Sharks in Australia ?

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You make a very good point and I can see you speak from a position of experience and have a lot more expertise than do I in this area. I just find that in South Africa divers regularly encounter sharks whilst diving and that attacks are becoming more regular... Not on divers necessarily, but also swimmers ... I have encountered them whilst surfing and my mate was attacked by one on his surfboard ... Luckily got away and is able to 'tell the tale' today, but personally I feel the authorities in SA have caused this problem with allowing 'cage diving' ... There is a direct correlation between the increased number of cage dives and shark attacks. They no longer live in a 'natural environment' because we have altered that environment for them to the point that it is (relatively speaking) no longer safe to swim in South African waters.... I take these sharks very seriously every time I dive there.
I must admit that I absolutely LOVE diving in most of the Caribbean Islands where one does not consider this to be an issue ...
I would much rather live in a world without these creatures than with them.... Sadly so as I blame human influence (cage diving and the tourists that support it) for this problem!
The amount of "chum" - read very bloody fish that they use for this is unbelievable. It is not their natural environment in any way. Glad your mate survived his encounter.
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