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Old 23-08-2012, 14:24   #61
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

There's quite an accessible overview on the subject here...

http://royalsociety.org/uploadedFile...4294972962.pdf
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Old 23-08-2012, 15:28   #62
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
Yeah, over there the tides are a touch on the small side , the odd one over here gets over 40', albeit usually top out at 38. Not to say that all our coastal defences were built to cope with those, at least not in a blow - but that nice Mr Hitler built us some cracking sea defences (as part of the Atlantic Wall), many of them including room for a gun. a large one........surprised we don't get more American visitors .

although we did have a real tiddler a couple of weeks back. 24' ......someone somewhere must have left the plug out .

FWIW, the "natural" state of the earth is barren and lifeless (if measured by what it has mostly been and what it will become - whatever Al Gore etc steal from my pocket).

Yeah, no kidding. I was on the hook just outside the St Peter Port harbor, Guernsey in the bay next to the castle when those Spring tides came through 2 weeks ago... 33 ft tidal change! You guys here in the Channel islands get a tsunami twice a day and think nothing of it.

About one hour prior to high tide, there's this huge surge when the final 9 feet of water surges into the bay... it's like being in a giant toilet bowl with waves coming at you in all directions. Then, when the tide initially begins to go out... it's like someone flushed the toilet. An awesome event to witness. To the locals... it's nothing.
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Old 23-08-2012, 17:17   #63
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

The universe is between 14-15 billion years old. It began with the Big Bang that contained the whole of the universe on the head of a pin. It has been expanding ever since.The age of the Dinosaurs lasted 350 million years. Hominids have existed in varied forms between 4-6 million years. The future of Man is inconceivable to both scientists and philosophers alike. It is only the arrogance of our pathetic species that believes we or our universe has importance since we are but a blimp on the cosmic screen. Global warming? End of the world? Anyone for a Glenlivet on the rocks?
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Old 23-08-2012, 17:29   #64
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

I was sent a link to this site this morning. I think it provides a lot of good information on the arguments against the concept of AGW.

New Here? The “ten second” guide to the world of skeptics « JoNova: Science, carbon, climate and tax
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Old 23-08-2012, 18:35   #65
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

I'll try to be brief in addressing the "Ten Second Guide" linked by reefmagnet

Apologies to the target audience if I run over ten seconds. I know tim is mony

Claim 1:
"The evidence shows temperature controls carbon dioxide (you read that correctly). Temperatures rise first, and CO2 follows."
First sentence: not true. Temperature influences (not controls) release of CO2, and CO2 influences temperature.
I think I posted earlier that rhis two-way influence sets up a dangerous positive feedback loop, potentially causing thermal runaway. The hotter it gets, the more CO2 is released. The more CO2, the quicker it gets hotter.
Second sentence: sometimes true. If you look at the historical record, sometime temperature leads, sometimes it lags CO2. Refer sentence one for explanation.

Claim 2:
"Global warming is real, but it started a century (or two) before our emissions."

At least this makes a change from claims the planet is actually cooling.... It's very likely quite true, as well.

The climate is always either warming or cooling. What's at issue here is the RATE of warming: we are causing warming at a rate which may threaten survival of crucial ecosystems. And if there is thermal runaway, the already dangerous rate could become much steeper.

Third claim: this relates only to static temperature. As suggested above, the real problem is the rate of change.

Claim Four:
"CO2 is called "pollution" but it feeds all plant-life on Earth"

That's like saying we should not combat overeating, because food is good.

EXCESS CO2 is damaging: not least because it changes the pH of the ocean we sail in, to the point where coral viability could be seriously impaired ... just one of thousands of problems, but might be of interest to someone with the handle "reefmagnet"
No reefs= less to hit, but no lagoons, no shelter (and the end of Oceania civilisation, what little survives accelerated sea level rise)

Ever tried breathing CO2: just try breathing into a paper bag for five minutes, and your enthusiasm might be tempered.
And global warming will kill off some plant ecosystems wholesale, accelerating desert formation
(already a major, largely human induced, problem. Forests are inherently vulnerable around the edges and it takes very little to shrink them).

This in turn means Claim Four collapses. Less plant life means we will need CO2 to reduce, not increase.

Claims Five and Six are political so are not relevant to the discussion.

I congratulate this website on such a low proportion of political claims, it's a rare and refreshing change.
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Old 23-08-2012, 18:44   #66
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
The universe is between 14-15 billion years old. It began with the Big Bang that contained the whole of the universe on the head of a pin. It has been expanding ever since.The age of the Dinosaurs lasted 350 million years. Hominids have existed in varied forms between 4-6 million years. The future of Man is inconceivable to both scientists and philosophers alike. It is only the arrogance of our pathetic species that believes we or our universe has importance since we are but a blimp on the cosmic screen. Global warming? End of the world? Anyone for a Glenlivet on the rocks?
Yes of course your right, but shouldn't we try an prolong our existence a bit.
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Old 23-08-2012, 18:57   #67
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

I think I'd like to suggest that we close this thread.

1) It isn't going to change anyone's mind.

2) It just makes enemies between friends.

3) I could read/watch all of those referenced articles/videos/links, and it wouldn't change my mind. No one "listens" anyway.

I much prefer a forum with "no politics, no religion" rules.
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Old 23-08-2012, 19:01   #68
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Re: What's Happening to Glacier Ice - Hard, Gritty Evidence

Agreed, the thread has run its course.

Thanks for those that abided by the rules and kept to the topic.
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