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Old 23-08-2010, 06:54   #106
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We are not immune to the membership of idiots. Unfortunately it is difficult to police without some skilled moderation.

Use of the forum is affected when:

1. The same people continuously jump in on threads where they obviously have zero knowledge, but strong belief in their own knowledge. Now that only really becomes a problem when it is the same person time and again on the same subject.

2. It becomes more of a problem if that person is also a moderator.

3. When moderators accept unsubstantiated rubbish from a prolific commercial poster, and then ban other members who challenge those statements despite available proof.
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Old 23-08-2010, 06:59   #107
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Originally Posted by Hud3 View Post
To address the issue that Doodles brought up...

Being human, we moderators do actually make mistakes from time to time.

The solution to the situation that you mention, Doodles, is to use the "Report Post" button, just like we encourage members to do for any other post that they feel was inappropriate under the CF Community Rules. That brings the issue before the whole mod team for discussion. Believe it or not, we do moderate each other. If a mod is out of line, we apply the same standards that we would for any other member. There have been a number of instances that I'm aware of where a moderator's post was modified or deleted, or a moderation action was reversed or amended after discussion by the team.
that sounds so d@mn civil; I'm beginning to hate this place. Where's that bank robbers forum?
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Old 23-08-2010, 08:12   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talbot View Post
We are not immune to the membership of idiots. Unfortunately it is difficult to police without some skilled moderation.

Use of the forum is affected when:

1. The same people continuously jump in on threads where they obviously have zero knowledge, but strong belief in their own knowledge. Now that only really becomes a problem when it is the same person time and again on the same subject.

2. It becomes more of a problem if that person is also a moderator.

3. When moderators accept unsubstantiated rubbish from a prolific commercial poster, and then ban other members who challenge those statements despite available proof.
Members who are absolutely convinced of the rightness of their claims somehow believe that their certainty constitutes license to post whatever they wish, wherever they wish. It is their mistaken assumption that they are invisible that results in the most outlandish, provocative and, ultimately, legally actionable claims being made by these zealots.

If any member believes he / she is immune from the legal process because of the illusion of anonymity that accompanies posting on the internet, even if you know that your claim is factual, you are mistaken. You can still be sued for making your anonymous assertions if the entity you have made those assertions about pursues redress legally.

You will lose your assumed anonymity, and you will be forced - at staggering expense - to prove your assertions in a court of law. Even if what you believe to be true is true, you may not prevail legally. That's the chance you're taking when you take the position that "The World Needs to Know!" and post defamatory remarks about anyone or any company.

Don't believe me? The following is from today's Los Angeles Times: Blogger beware: Postings can lead to lawsuits - latimes.com For those too busy to read the article, it contains the following:
Quote:
Although bloggers may have a free-speech right to say what they want online, courts have found that they are not protected from being sued for their comments, even if they are posted anonymously.
Because the volunteers who make up the site staff, as well as the owner of this site, are in no position to ascertain the truth or falsity of any potentially defamatory statement, the Cruisers Forum Rules contain the following language:
Quote:
Dealer/Vendor and Customer Disputes:
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties. Please settle your differences with the seller, manufacturer and dealer through the long-established legal or arbitration systems or the Better Business Bureau but not through our community.
If a member wishes to put a legal noose around his / her own neck, we can't stop them from doing so elsewhere, but we can, and will, do so here. To be called "Nazis" for doing so is unfortunate, but it says far more about those who resort to such incivility than it does about any member of the CF site staff.

TaoJones
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Old 23-08-2010, 08:26   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
Members who are absolutely convinced of the rightness of their claims somehow believe that their certainty constitutes license to post whatever they wish, wherever they wish. It is their mistaken assumption that they are invisible that results in the most outlandish, provocative and, ultimately, legally actionable claims being made by these zealots.

If any member believes he / she is immune from the legal process ...
The Case Of Dan Meyers v. Sailing Anarchy might also be instructive.

Courthouse News Service

Meyers v Sailing Anarchy Inc., et al | Citizen Media Law Project

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/bu...abba.html?_r=1
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Old 23-08-2010, 09:03   #110
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I also commend folks to use the Ignore User button - however I just found thats disappeared too!!!!!!!!!!
I use the one implemented in wetware quite often. Whenever a discussion ignores facts and instead focuses personal motivations or qualifications it is time to move on.

The test is easy, is it the message or the messenger (or the messengers tribe) that is being discussed ?


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Old 23-08-2010, 09:05   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
Quote:
Dealer/Vendor and Customer Disputes:
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties. Please settle your differences with the seller, manufacturer and dealer through the long-established legal or arbitration systems or the Better Business Bureau but not through our community.
Dealer/Vendor and Customer Disputes:
This forum is not intended to be a mechanism for people to vent frustrations about vendors or sales from private parties. Please settle your differences with the seller, manufacturer and dealer through the long-established legal or arbitration systems or the Better Business Bureau but not through our community.
TaoJones
I have no difficulty with that as a rule (even if I think it may not be in the community's interest) as I recognise the legal quagmire it might create. However, you need to create a mechanism on how to deal with a legal vendor who consistently is making false claims in order to protect both yourself and the community.
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Old 23-08-2010, 09:33   #112
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I use the one implemented in wetware quite often. Whenever a discussion ignores facts and instead focuses personal motivations or qualifications it is time to move on.
The test is easy, is it the message or the messenger (or the messengers tribe) that is being discussed ?
-Sven
INDEED!
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Old 23-08-2010, 09:36   #113
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Just a peek........Comming soon!
Excellent!
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Old 23-08-2010, 09:56   #114
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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
Regrettably as a Moderator I try to ask questions first and to act later. With Moderators spread all over the globe sometimes it can be a slow process to be sure we have the right culprit in our sights before pulling the trigger.

The process is private so those who have been offended don't often see the end result. We also use a "Three strikes" rule so recalcitrant members do have to try quite hard to attract firm action. Taking unwarranted or unfair action can be worse than giving the "benefit of the doubt".

As a Moderator I sometimes cringe when I see some posts.

What I hope yous do see is some members becoming much more "reasonable".

It does help us greatly when members use the "Report Post" and "Ignore" functions.

I believe the Techs are working on any bugs in the "Ignore" function.
I fully agree with Boracay and would like to add to what Boracay has to say.

Please use the Private Message system and the Report Post feature. Your message is not lost as if you are sending an email to some gigantic corporation who could care less about you. In fact, its just the opposite here at Cruisers Forum. Your Report Post message is read by all the moderators. We take your reports seriously. A lot goes on behind the scenes to respond to people who are breaking the rules or are being contrary in some way to the civilized and respectful environment we are trying to create at here.

By reporting something that is disagreeable to you or contrary to the rules, it helps us make this a better forum.
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Old 23-08-2010, 10:39   #115
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Is this action restricted to the internet only or would it apply to any joe who walks into a pub and tells a bunch of mates and is overheard, or indeed anyone who wears a tee shirt stating the same case?

As you can see from my blog, im less than happy with the antics of my boat yard, but does that mean I can only tell my nearest and dearest, whom can be sworn to secrecy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post

If any member believes he / she is immune from the legal process because of the illusion of anonymity that accompanies posting on the internet, even if you know that your claim is factual, you are mistaken. You can still be sued for making your anonymous assertions if the entity you have made those assertions about pursues redress legally.

You will lose your assumed anonymity, and you will be forced - at staggering expense - to prove your assertions in a court of law. Even if what you believe to be true is true, you may not prevail legally. That's the chance you're taking when you take the position that "The World Needs to Know!" and post defamatory remarks about anyone or any company.

Don't believe me? The following is from today's Los Angeles Times: Blogger beware: Postings can lead to lawsuits - latimes.com For those too busy to read the article, it contains the following: Because the volunteers who make up the site staff, as well as the owner of this site, are in no position to ascertain the truth or falsity of any potentially defamatory statement, the Cruisers Forum Rules contain the following language: If a member wishes to put a legal noose around his / her own neck, we can't stop them from doing so elsewhere, but we can, and will, do so here. To be called "Nazis" for doing so is unfortunate, but it says far more about those who resort to such incivility than it does about any member of the CF site staff.

TaoJones
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Old 23-08-2010, 10:45   #116
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In the US, anyone can get sued for any reason. That's just a fact here. Whether or not the lawsuit is successful in court is another story. (Either way the attorneys get paid.)
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Old 23-08-2010, 10:52   #117
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anjou, the answer to your question is no. However, be careful how you express your displeasure. Stating the facts is one thing. Speaking about someone's character is something else.

If your liable laws are similar to Canada's then it is much less likely that you will be sued than if you were in the USA. I would think that before going to court you would be asked to remove statements from your blog or for a public retraction.

Oh, by the way, I am not a lawyer so take this posting for what its worth.
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Old 23-08-2010, 12:10   #118
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I'm pretty sure plaintiff is responsible for defendent's costs if the suit is unsuccessful, in Britain. They tend not to run around suing each other over there.
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Old 23-08-2010, 12:25   #119
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...We take your reports seriously. A lot goes on behind the scenes to respond to people who are breaking the rules or are being contrary in some way to the civilized and respectful environment we are trying to create at here..
Interesting.... So you're telling the forum that when a member discovers a post of theirs edited by a moderator, that this editing decision was the consensus of many moderators?
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Old 23-08-2010, 13:47   #120
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Interesting.... So you're telling the forum that when a member discovers a post of theirs edited by a moderator, that this editing decision was the consensus of many moderators?
Not always; but should you object, privately to a Moderator, it WILL become the subject of a group review & discussion, resulting in a concensus decision.

Of course, the above is only my personal "armchair" opinion - I'm not a Moderator.
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