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Old 25-04-2014, 21:40   #106
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

Don't drink the Kool Aid.
Everything you know is wrong.
Even Robert Crumb hated hippies.
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Old 25-04-2014, 21:48   #107
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

Youth, "a compleate lack of deep thought..."

My experiennce has been different than that. I retired from teaching high school for 34 years. Most of the kids I worked with were honest, hard working, fun, and yes, deep thinkers. I bought a cupcake today from 4 young (13 years old?) girls sitting at a table raising money for cancer. I gave the cupcake to my grand-daughter who is such a gentle soul. I do remember the 60s, but I see that each generation has tried to move civilization forward, with mixed results. I don't see my generation as better (or worse) than today's.

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.” Socretes.

This quote reminds us that evey generation is aware of the failings of youth. And yes, I know that the world is full of dificulties and hardship that we and they are not addressing properly, yet still I think that we also hold the correct answers in our hearts and hands. We have passed the best of our generation (and the worst) to our kids. There are a lot of good people out there, both old and young.
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Old 25-04-2014, 23:07   #108
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

I have a little different perspective, I spent the 60s learning how to live off the land, build shelters in hostile environments, commercial fishing. My Dad hated my music, I have to confess, I am not over fond of most of today's music. I have a young Nephew that likens Kurt Cobain to John Lennon, and I made the mistake of ridiculing Kurt to him. He is a bright and shining star with a good work ethic and good sense of humor and cares for the environment. I never marched, I was engage in the environmental movement back when we had the big green "E" patches. I tend to have a pragmatic view of things, like "can I eat it?" or "will it eat me?". I was raised to leave something for the future generations, this had more to do with the wild fish and game, but it carried over as a general philosophy as I grew older. It boils down to what you do and what you don't do. Even bicycles carry an ecological cost, the energy needed to make the steel, and rubber parts. I haven't researched it, but I am willing to bet that solar panels have a pretty toxic process to come into being. I like the physicians motto "First do no harm" The very act of living on the planet extracts a price, hopefully one can be mindful of the cost as one goes through life and tries to minimize the impact. As far as politics go, it's all a bunch of smoke and mirrors to entertain the peasants while the "suits that run the store" keep to their agenda. Even they will pass one day.
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Old 25-04-2014, 23:52   #109
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

Don't follow. Don't lead, and don't join.

Coops.
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Old 26-04-2014, 00:21   #110
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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What, da man got ya down gypsy?

I'm ok now Newt. (cough) inhaled a bit to much paraquat.
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Old 26-04-2014, 00:27   #111
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Originally Posted by gypsy wanderer View Post


Love your avatar. Is that a lime peel or green tennis ball?

Lime

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Old 26-04-2014, 00:48   #112
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

As a kid in the 60s.... I saw people were not having as good a time as they were trying to.
Last night in the land of Wales, normal amount of people trying to have a good time. I got to fix 2 dislocated shoulders using my favourite technique.
Woo hoo! They never had this in the 60s..

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Old 26-04-2014, 01:08   #113
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

Video isn't working is that a women with a nice mustache or a pregnant guy with boobs. Both of those medical techniques are more a 90s thing then the 60s.


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Old 26-04-2014, 01:11   #114
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Both of those medical techniques are more a 90s thing then the 60s.
er.........
Quote:
Woo hoo! They never had this in the 60s..
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Old 26-04-2014, 01:33   #115
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Re: What did we learn from the 60's?

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Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
The only thing I've learned from the people of the 60's is they underestimate the younger generations.
Complaining about the young is of all ages. The current batch of young people will make the same complaints about the next one...
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Old 26-04-2014, 01:39   #116
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Originally Posted by anotherT34C View Post
I wish the poor ("poor" = bottom 95%) the best, but I'm not optimistic.
You've got an odd definition of poor.

For most of the worlds history poverty was the norm. And poverty meant: Going hungry, dying early, suffering from small ailments most of your life, and then dying form some trivial desease. Or from violence.

Such poverty is rapidly becoming the exception in the world. In the Western industrialised nation there is basically no poverty left (with a few exceptions). The rest of the world is making big strides as well. It's all there to see.
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Old 26-04-2014, 01:42   #117
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Originally Posted by K_V_B View Post
You've got an odd definition of poor.

For most of the worlds history poverty was the norm. And poverty meant: Going hungry, dying early, suffering from small ailments most of your life, and then dying form some trivial desease. Or from violence.

Such poverty is rapidly becoming the exception in the world. In the Western industrialised nation there is basically no poverty left (with a few exceptions). The rest of the world is making big strides as well. It's all there to see.
Please do your homework before posting incorrect statements.

1. Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty, that's less than $1.25 a day.
2. 1 billion children worldwide are living in poverty. According to UNICEF, 22,000 children die each day due to poverty.
3. More than 1 billion people lack adequate access to clean drinking water and an estimated 400 million of these are children. Because unclean water yields illness, roughly 443 million school days are missed every year.
4. In 2011, 165 million children under the age 5 were stunted (reduced rate of growth and development) due to chronic malnutrition.
5. 870 million people worldwide do not have enough food to eat.
6. Preventable diseases like diarrhea and pneumonia take the lives of 2 million children a year who are too poor to afford proper treatment.
7. As of 2011, 19 million children worldwide are not vaccinated.
8. 1/4 of all humans live without electricity — approximately 1.6 billion people.
9. 80% of the world population lives on less than $10 a day.
10. It would cost approximately $40 billion annually to offer basic education, clean water and sanitation, reproductive health for women, and basic health and nutrition to every person in every developing country.

11. The World Food Programme says, “The poor are hungry and their hunger traps them in poverty.” Hunger is the number 1 cause of death in the world, killing more than HIV/AIDS, malaria, and tuberculosis combined.
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Old 26-04-2014, 01:56   #118
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

Once nations are lifted from grinding poverty, it seems that an arc begins, whose improvement of the standard of living reaches a peak when all the obvious steps have been taken.

What happens then is that such nations progressively do better at getting good outcomes for (certain) individuals, and worse at getting good outcomes for society as a whole.

For instance, medical procedures for wealthy patients have improved a lot more than procedures for the masses. This is not an evil conspiracy, this is how markets work in a developed economy where all the low hanging fruit has been picked, and businesses have been herded by their investors and bankers to where the profits are greatest.

The best schools and colleges are better than they've ever been. The numerical majority: not noticeably.

The arc seems to curve back downwards, as the growth imperative starts eating society from within, a bit like cancer does.

What we're starting to see in economically advanced societies is that the purchasing power of the middle class has been co-opted upwards (opposite of "trickle down") and that's starting to hurt economies, because the middle class is inevitably the bulk of the market.

or so it seems to me, anyway.
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Old 26-04-2014, 02:26   #119
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Please do your homework before posting incorrect statements.
I have done my homework.

What you do is called the "Nirvana Fallacy". You are comparing the world as it is to what you want it to be, and find it wanting. That is understandable, as the world still has massive room for improvement.
However that was not what I was stating.
I was stating that the state of the world's population has improved massively in the past, and that it is improving at a fast rate. I did not state that the world was a paradise.

Quote:
1. Nearly 1/2 of the world’s population — more than 3 billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. More than 1.3 billion live in extreme poverty, that's less than $1.25 a day.
You are correct that 1/6 of the world lives in extreme poverty. But does't that actually prove my point?
We come from a world where _everyone_ (literally everyone) lived in extreme poverty.
Nowadays even most Africans have mobile phones, something not even the most powerful king had in 1900....
Don't pretend no progress has been made.

That's just one example. The figures you gave in the rest of your post are correct, and I won't go in to them in detail. However I know these figure too. I do not claim that there is no hunger, poverty or misery in the world. The claim I made is that huge progress is actually being made at eradicating them. And if you did your homework, you would have noticed that Unicef, the World Bank, the United Nations, the World Food Program, and all the other usual three letter agencies whose figures you quote all confirm that progress has been made, and that progress is continually being made.
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Old 26-04-2014, 02:31   #120
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Re: What did we Learn from the 60's?

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Originally Posted by Andrew Troup View Post
Once nations are lifted from grinding poverty, it seems that an arc begins, whose improvement of the standard of living reaches a peak when all the obvious steps have been taken.

What happens then is that such nations progressively do better at getting good outcomes for (certain) individuals, and worse at getting good outcomes for society as a whole.

For instance, medical procedures for wealthy patients have improved a lot more than procedures for the masses. This is not an evil conspiracy, this is how markets work in a developed economy where all the low hanging fruit has been picked, and businesses have been herded by their investors and bankers to where the profits are greatest.

The best schools and colleges are better than they've ever been. The numerical majority: not noticeably.

The arc seems to curve back downwards, as the growth imperative starts eating society from within, a bit like cancer does.

What we're starting to see in economically advanced societies is that the purchasing power of the middle class has been co-opted upwards (opposite of "trickle down") and that's starting to hurt economies, because the middle class is inevitably the bulk of the market.

or so it seems to me, anyway.
Well, I live in an economically advanced society, and see no reason for pessimism. But then Switzerland is a bit weird. I think most problems the US has stem from it being to big...
But looking at the naked facts I don't see a lot of what is claimed to happen to really happen. Society is complex, and many people have only limited grasp of what money is, and how the economy functions.
Inequality for example has been reduced when we look purely at it in monetary terms, but it has not been reduced in the industrialised world if we look at quality of life.
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