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Old 28-07-2009, 13:20   #16
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mangomuffins--

You're not that far from us--if ronald reagan, elvis presley and jimi hendrix are all coming over to your house for a barbecue later this evening would you mind if I dropped by? I'd like to get Ronnie's autograph.

Frankly guys--since there's so much controversy on this subject, and given that there's no cheese down this particular rat hole anyway, maybe the best thing would be to drop the subject, eh?
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:26   #17
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... Man has been able to adapt to the climate for thousands of years and it's time to do it again...
Until very recently (past 25 years or so) man has been largely an ignorant slave to climate - reacting to it, as necessary & able - as best we could.

I’d prefer to ameliorate anthropomorphic climate change, as best we can, to maintain the best lifestyle possible, under those circumstances we can control - and only adapt to those changes we cannot control.

Elvs will be appearing at our local Concert in the Parks, tomorrow night. For those able to attend, enjoy his performance, but please. respect his privacy.
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:28   #18
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Until very recently (past 25 years or so) man has been largely an ignorant slave to climate - reacting to it, as necessary & able - as best we could.
=================================================

That I understand.
==============================================
I’d prefer to ameliorate anthropomorphic climate change, as best we can, to maintain the best lifestyle possible, under those circumstances we can control - and only adapt to those changes we cannot control.
================================================
Huh? What did you say?
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:34   #19
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mangomuffins--

You're not that far from us--if ronald reagan, elvis presley and jimi hendrix are all coming over to your house for a barbecue later this evening would you mind if I dropped by? I'd like to get Ronnie's autograph.

Frankly guys--since there's so much controversy on this subject, and given that there's no cheese down this particular rat hole anyway, maybe the best thing would be to drop the subject, eh?
Ronnie supports the cover-up idea; Elvis thinks you're the Devil in Disguise; and Jimi's kind of hazy on the whole thing.
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:37   #20
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Seems we have 2 trains of thought.

1. Science

2. Beliefs. Beliefs trumping science was made popular during the weak minded previous administration in DC.

Methinks I will go with science, though in some circles facts often take a back seat to "beliefs". It is a real shame that unfounded beliefs can cause the train of science to jump the track these days. Generally these beliefs are tied to $$$$$$$$$$.
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:45   #21
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... I’d prefer to ameliorate anthropomorphic climate change, as best we can, to maintain the best lifestyle possible, under those circumstances we can control - and only adapt to those changes we cannot control.
Like most knowledgeable, but not necessarily expert, observers, I believe that some of the most serious negative consequences of near-future climate change are man-made (anthropomorphic anthropogenic - thanks HyLyte), and could be man-changed (reversed).
I’m primarily interested in how best to do this, rather than whether it should be attempted.

Reinhold Niebuhr’s Serenity Prayer begins:
“God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
the courage to change the things I can;
and the wisdom to know the difference...”
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:45   #22
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political correctness for economic gain .. that's all it is. the sky is falling. jimi hendrix will not be attending the BBQ.
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:46   #23
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mangomuffins--

You're not that far from us--if ronald reagan, elvis presley and jimi hendrix are all coming over to your house for a barbecue later this evening would you mind if I dropped by? I'd like to get Ronnie's autograph.
SV,

I would love to have you over but after reading the threads in the counter-culture postings, i think not. You sail a benetau and i sail a '71 albin vega 27'. Due to the obvious disparity between our boats and (probable income levels) I just can't see that we would have anything in common. Heck, you probably even have a gps thingy.

just kidding of course...come on by

cheers,
mm
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:48   #24
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Mule--I think Gordo meant to say anthropogenic; but, then again, certain topical climates can be a real SOB by which characterization one engages in a measure of anthropomorphism, eh?
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Old 28-07-2009, 13:48   #25
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acidification

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The issue of Ocean Acidification is causing irreversible loss to species and habitats, and acidification trends are happening up to ten times faster than projected.
If there's anything in Randy's letter that ought to alarm cruisers, it's the rate at which acidification is exceeding the projections of oceanographers. The fact that coral systems are not going to be able to handle much more of this is based on rudimentary carbonate chemistry.

About 1/3 of the carbon dioxide that comes out of your tailpipe ends up being stored in the ocean. As the level of carbon dioxide goes up in the oceanic carbonate system, the pH level goes down. (Low pH = "acidification.") When this happens, the saturation level of carbonate materials such as calcite gets so low that it becomes nearly impossible for coral polyps to build reefs.

This is science, folks. It's not even upper-division science. It's been studied in thousands of aquaria in thousands of collegiate labs around the world, and there's such a strong scientific consensus about the effects of oceanic acidification that anyone who tells you different can honestly be labeled a "crackpot."

Acidification is happening now, and we're watching it. It's so simple to test that even the guy who cleans your pool can do it. We can already see the results in places like Bermuda, where coral reefs now occupy 50% less space than they did prior to industrialization.

We should be thankful that people in the business community, like our fellow cruiser Randy Repass, are finally starting to get it.
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Old 28-07-2009, 14:14   #26
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Changeable Weather??? You guys think you've got problems - over here the Sun dissapears. every day to get it back we have to sacrifice a Goat.

So what sacrifices do your priests say that your gods require?
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Old 28-07-2009, 14:36   #27
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We should be thankful that people in the business community, like our fellow cruiser Randy Repass, are finally starting to get it.
My sentiments exactly. It is time for people to acknowledge the incredible amount of damage that we are doing to our environment as a world crises, instead of as the media propaganda that many would have us believe it to be. Whether or not you 'believe' in global warming is not the issue. The issue is that we are (and have been for some time) polluting our air, land, and waters with toxic chemicals, and we have seen, and will continue to see, issues because of this: acid rain, smog, higher asthma rates , ocean acidification, and [if you 'believe?' -global warming]

There are viable and readily available fossil-fuel alternatives that need to be implemented and , I believe, many others that are waiting to be discovered. Tougher restrictions and requirements along with public awareness are exactly what we need to help to make this happen.

A large majority of the population does seem to be unconcerned and/or in denial of such problems. So, to me, the idea that a successful entrepreneur such as Randy Repass would risk a (possibly very large) loss of revenue in order to do his part to save our oceans is both a refreshing and an encouraging gesture.
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Old 28-07-2009, 15:05   #28
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political correctness for economic gain .. that's all it is. the sky is falling. jimi hendrix will not be attending the BBQ.
I'll ask again whose financial gain?
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Old 28-07-2009, 15:30   #29
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I'll ask again who's financial gain?
Don't you know? It's those crafty scientists trying to scare us into giving them grant money.

There's no talking to deniers. Many of them have also managed to convince themselves that science supports silliness like that the earth is 6000 years old, or that evolution is somehow a dodgy science. They're simply hopeless.

We'll just have to work on their kids when they're in school, and wait for the crazies to die off.
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Old 28-07-2009, 15:31   #30
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Changeable Weather??? You guys think you've got problems - over here the Sun dissapears. every day to get it back we have to sacrifice a Goat.

So what sacrifices do your priests say that your gods require?
Unfortunately, the most vocal of "preachers" here in the US say that the sacrifice your God requires is money...

I saw someone's sig line on another board that sums it up nicely: "If Jesus saves, then how come he's always asking for money?"


Sad, really.

FWIW, I'll side with global warming - the economic hit the naysayers talk about is far more exaggerated than the data supporting GW.
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