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Old 17-01-2010, 22:59   #91
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Alright . . . calm down, everyone. Yelling at one another is counter-productive. The OP's thread-opening post asked how climate change is already, or might eventually, affect the cruising lifestyle. Please keep the thread on-topic, and remain civil. Thank you for your cooperation.

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Old 17-01-2010, 23:01   #92
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Here's some more reading
Global Warming:A Chilling Perspective
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Old 17-01-2010, 23:09   #93
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WRONG!!! We're debating whether it's man made, or not!!!!

There is no doubt there is a warming trend! Wake up!
The figures in my link are for man-made CO2 emissions.
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Old 17-01-2010, 23:40   #94
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Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
Alright . . . calm down, everyone. Yelling at one another is counter-productive. The OP's thread-opening post asked how climate change is already, or might eventually, affect the cruising lifestyle. Please keep the thread on-topic, and remain civil. Thank you for your cooperation.

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Sorry!

It's not really a debate anymore. It's one side against the other and the one with the most $$$$ wins, as usual.
Scientists can't even agree so who are we to believe? Who's has the highest credentials? And can we believe him/her$$$$$?

The weather hasn't really changed much in my 60 years. Not enough, that if it were no news papers or radio no one would even notice.
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Old 18-01-2010, 00:14   #95
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Getting back to the original question.

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Originally Posted by anjou View Post
Not wishing to start a war of words over the politics of climate change, how do you see the changing climate affecting live afloat?
You are either a committed cruiser or you are not!

The very dynamics of cruising gives you the correct mindset to manage and adjust to varying weather conditions, (both physical and social).

So whatever happens, I will selfishly feel more secure knowing that I can read the weather and position myself in a safer quadrant, rather than those who wait for CNN or their government to tell them how it is.

The old Adage: ... “Everyone likes to talk about the weather, but no one is prepared to do anything about it” … takes on a much more chilling meaning when you observe the changes in the last 60 years caused by overpopulation and our willingness to constantly abuse and consume all in Nature that shares our Planet.

Those who have mindlessly trampled and over-populated the Earth’s resources may now demand that their self anointed leaders on all sides of the question proclaim the power and authority to assure them… or fix the problem.

I can only view the developing drama with the same fatalism I view any storm, where I have only the power to put my own floating house in order.

So for me, I am happy to live out what I have left, in a 3rd world provincial mindset of being a good observer, enjoying life, but leaving as small a foot print as possible, when my time comes.

An admittedly selfish act based on the decision made many years ago, to avoid populating the earth with any of my own lovable consumers.
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Old 18-01-2010, 06:33   #96
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Maybe Germany but they lost the war! Now they send our efforts overseas for $$$$$$ as our hard working intelligent forefathers rot in their graves.

Hit on China for a while and see what answer you get back.
Yes. It's all a maasive international conspiracy by climate scientists, governments and the U.N. to impose a global government, take our guns and bankrupt the people.
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Old 18-01-2010, 07:22   #97
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The inconvenient truth about the Ice core Carbon Dioxide Temperature Correlations | ScienceBits

As one can see, according to scientist, there has been a GW about every 100k years and it looks as though we're about due for another one. So the question is: is it man made or just another cycle?

Also, it is suggested the warming increases precede the CO2 increases. So who is one to believe? I look at the evidence and conclude it's the earth cycling and the politicians are trying to capitalize on it.

Sabray, Government is wasteful not the people. Don't generalize! Me and mine have been recycling and conserving since the 50's, and my parents of the depression before me. What other countries in the last 250 years has grown in health and technologies as well as the US? Maybe Germany but they lost the war! Now they send our efforts overseas for $$$$$$ as our hard working intelligent forefathers rot in their graves.

Hit on China for a while and see what answer you get back.
Delmarrey,

Your post is an excellent example of how easily scientific data can be misinterpreted. If you look carefully at the graph you posted, you will see a CO2 spike in the extreme right hand portion (i.e., the modern times) that is 1) significantly higher and steeper than the previous highs, and 2) it leads not lags the temperature rise. It is precisely data like this that gives scientists nightmares.

There is much disagreement in the scientific community, but it is about quantifying the rate of man-made climate change and its precise effects, not about the basic phenomenon.

Also you say "Government is wasteful not the people." At least the U.S. is a democracy and politicians are elected by the people (more or less). When you say you're unhappy with the politicians, you need to look in the mirror, at your neighbors, and at the populations of your neighboring states. I'm unhappy with the politicians too (although I suspect they are the different ones from the ones you're unhappy with) but I think they reflect the (sometimes misguided or ignorant) attitudes of the general population.

Finally, for the record, while I have worked in a scientific field most of my life, I am not a climate scientist and don't stand to make one cent from any research conducted on climate change or any action intended to counter it. Furthermore, I think it's unlikely that most people on this board will be affected by climate change in our lifetimes. The effects will be felt by our children, grand-children, and grand-grandchildren, but they don't have a say in this debate.
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:14   #98
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Not wishing to start a war of words over the politics of climate change, how do you see the changing climate affecting live afloat
C'mon fellas, much as I like a good debate, lets not get stressed over this please
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Old 18-01-2010, 09:22   #99
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What impresses me is the utter certainty among lay people that the vast majority of scientists in relevant fields of study are simply wrong.
(...)
Oh, no, not all scientists are wrong. Not all, because some of them are liars.

Example: East Anglia University & the global warming scam.
Example: swine flue & the WHO scam.

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Old 18-01-2010, 09:57   #100
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What impresses me is the utter certainty among lay people that the vast majority of scientists in relevant fields of study are simply wrong.

If I were going to bet the planet's future, I'd want something more than a hunch and a hatred of Al Gore to go on.
Not nearly as impressive as the utter certainty among lay people that the vast majority of "scientists in relevant fields" support the MMGW-theory. Do you have any facts? What "relevant fields" are you including? Is paleogeology relevant? How many scientists are there in these fields, and what is the exact percentage that have stated they support MMGW-theory?

Nor as impressive as the utter certainty among lay people that there is absolute proof that the Earth is warming and it is caused by humans. Even the IPCC doesn't share that certainty. It's also apparent that some data has been deliberately withheld or manipulated, which casts doubt upon the "facts" provided from some of the scientists in the relevant fields.

If I was going to bet our economies, I'd want more than a hunch and a love of Al Gore to go on.
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Old 18-01-2010, 13:53   #101
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"I believe that only scientists can understand the universe. It is not so much that I have confidence in scientists being right, but that I have so much in nonscientists being wrong."

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Old 18-01-2010, 14:19   #102
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Not too excited are we?

I don't care where the weather comes from.

The thing we should all be working towards is advancement in the way we make power and move people and things around.

There is private money out there (read, not tax dollars) for wind power,
clean natural gas power, Nuke power, Tidal power, Solar power and probably others. What does the "green" block say? Not In My Back Yard!

Tons of clean infrastructure is not being built because pigheaded enviros will only accept some magic bullet made from unobtainium.

How does this affect my boating? A local power plant was replaced by a natural gas unit and the black soot on my boat was 90% less.

Selfish, YES, smart - you bet!
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Old 18-01-2010, 14:32   #103
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Cold Fusion??

Remember "cold fusion"??? After Pons et al made the announcement that they had demonstrated cold fusion, over 40 laboratories (if my memory serves me right) were able to repeat the results, most notably Georgia Tech. Cold fusion never happened! It was found to be a botched experiment.

There is too much pride and ... funding at stake for these laboratories to be left out of the perceived mainstream. The key word in this sentence is funding. Hence the gamed data and mis-behaving by some of the scientists.

When the dust settles I am convinced it will be found that global warming is not driven by CO2 in the atmosphere. In fact, the basic physics of global heat transfer does not support the man-made global warming rates that are estimated.
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Old 18-01-2010, 15:34   #104
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So I guess I'll chime in.

In the 60's, my family lived on a lake near Washington, DC. Every winter, the lake froze and we could skate and play hockey. It has been at least 20 years since that lake has frozen thick enough to skate on.

This fact, and others like it, suggest to me that the world is getting warmer.

Why? Most likely, because of some natural cycle. It is possible that mankind is making the cycle worse, but I think the primary driver is a natural cycle.

What should we do? I think we should get past fossil fuels, mostly because of the pollution they cause, and because of the economic distortions that result from buying oil abroad. Will cap-and-trade end global warming? I don't think so.
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Old 18-01-2010, 16:16   #105
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Quote:
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Not wishing to start a war of words over the politics of climate change, how do you see the changing climate affecting live afloat?

Apart from the obvious rise in hurricanes and the eventual rise in sea levels, all beit only a meter or so, and certainly not in my lifetime, what other situations/events do you forsee or have you noticed?

Back to the question:

Other that a possible change in sea levels I see just a change in our crusing patterns and seasons from place to place. I believe the changing weather will change the timing of seasons and trade winds that passages get scheduled around.

And I believe that there is enough supporting data to say a warming is occurring. BUT I don't believe there is data to say it is man made and not just a cycle that has always been around. All this discussion about whether global warming is man made etc seems should have a new thread, but it isn't going to be won one way of the other by a group of boaters!
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