Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-01-2010, 16:38   #76
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,898
I would like to chime in with my 2 cents. I have not read through all the previous posts but the arguments seem to go like so, so many I have read on other forums. We all get tied up in arguing about this or that fact, the larger picture gets lost. I'm no scientist, wouldn't matter if I was, there is disagreement. For myself I have resolved it this following way.

If, on the one hand we are not facing RUNAWAY global warming and we err and take measures to combat it we will probably cause a global recession. That may kill many people and lower the overall standard of living.

If, on the other hand, those who are warning of RUNAWAY global warming are correct and DON'T take necessary measures then we face global consequences of catastrophic proportions. In the worse case scenario we could create such a strong feedback that water vapor could not be sustained and the entire planet would become akin to Venus. That was the thrust of the Hansen paper I linked above.

Who is right? I don't know I think of it as like playing Russian Roulette. The chances are 5/6ths that you will "win." But the consequences of "losing", small as they are, are such that no prudent person would engage in the practice.

Where I start to get worked up on this matter is that those who wish to play the game are forcing me and my off spring to suffer the consequences should they "lose." Frankly I don't take kindly to that. Play if you must, but not at my expense.
__________________

__________________
hpeer is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 17:21   #77
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
isn't methane from cow farts a huge source in all this, why don't we hear about getting rid of the dairy and beef industry
__________________

__________________
sailorboy1 is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 17:43   #78
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
mmmm sorta again its about what is efficient. You can sware that c02 emmisions are harmless if you want. the economist says foreign oil isn't good like massive debt not good. The energy used to raise meat product is huge compared to vegetables.. so it s more efficient to eat vegetables then cows. Im not a vegetarian was once a dairy farmer but Im trying to be more efficient with our resources for a number of reasons.Risk and reward is with the lifestyle change.
__________________
sabray is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 17:52   #79
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: between the devil and the deep blue sea
Boat: a sailing boat
Posts: 17,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post

Not wishing to start a war of words over the politics of climate change, how do you see the changing climate affecting live afloat?
I read 'rise in hurricanes', so I go search the net, can't see any rise in hurricanes. Maybe more get detected but then again we have better tools today.

I read 'rise in sea level', so I go search the net and they say it is cyclical, it has happened before, and the rise is 6 mm per 10 years. Sure an average atoll accumulates more than 6 mm of old flip-flops material in the same time.

So, I cannot see any real climate change other than the one resulting from the fact that the climate is a process more than a fixed thing, so there are changes to it all the time.

But if you ask me what changes will result from the climate change then I would bet my money on taxes. Rise in taxes, off course.

b.
__________________
barnakiel is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 17:57   #80
Registered User
 
paradix's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Australasia
Posts: 284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
isn't methane from cow farts a huge source in all this, why don't we hear about getting rid of the dairy and beef industry
Don, if you visit an agricutural economy like New Zealand you will certainly hear about it all the time!

And it's their burps that are the problem, not their farts so much...

As for the OP's question - I guess not keeping a cow aboard would be a good start...
__________________
paradix is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 18:04   #81
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
goats and lambs bleat all others for production of methane. I read recently a goat was sailing around the world on an open 60. some wackey record attempt. the goat only eats ivy I think as it is sailing that makes it carbon neutral. More farm animals should take up sailing.
__________________
sabray is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 18:49   #82
Registered User
 
George P's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Ft Lauderdale
Boat: Taswell 49
Posts: 82
Hello Group,
Not sure why I am going to reply to this thread, but here goes...I do believe we have a global polution problem and as our population grows it will get worse, there is no denying this. I have woken on many clear sunny days and looked into the sky and noticed the brown haze that the winds carry from city skylines. Multiplied by all the urban cities in the world....you get the idea, it must have an effect. But what is the effect and how if affects us is not quantifiable. I guess the only way to control polution is by controlling economic activity......I'll leave that loaded statement for another discussion. Of course, this is my opinion and belief. So with that, and the fact that the ocean water level at my dock where I keep my boat has not changed for as long as I can remember, I have a hard time accepting the global warming argument in its entirety especially when it comes from politians. When these guys start crying about global warming then I know there is another agenda up their sleeves like there always is.
In parting I would like to say that: I'll believe it (rising sea levels) when I see it and hopefully we can keep on with our economic activity until we can afford to cut loose from the dock and go sailing for good...until then...well...have another beer...
__________________
George P is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 19:43   #83
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Alarmist

Quote:
Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
I read 'rise in hurricanes', so I go search the net, can't see any rise in hurricanes. Maybe more get detected but then again we have better tools today.

I read 'rise in sea level', so I go search the net and they say it is cyclical, it has happened before, and the rise is 6 mm per 10 years. Sure an average atoll accumulates more than 6 mm of old flip-flops material in the same time.

So, I cannot see any real climate change other than the one resulting from the fact that the climate is a process more than a fixed thing, so there are changes to it all the time.

But if you ask me what changes will result from the climate change then I would bet my money on taxes. Rise in taxes, off course.

b.
It's all this hot air and people chasing after it that's causing GW. If we should just let the wind blow us around and forget the politics..............._/)

For every action there is a reaction whether it be by mouth or by the weather. The weather comes and goes and there is little, to nothing, man can do about it! All it would take is one large meteor or Krakatau and it all changes.

Al Gore, himself, has created more CO2, although it doesn't matter, and burned more fuel in this campaign then I ever will in my life time. So, why should I have to pay. Lets cut out (re-elect) all the politicians and their wars and we'll cure GW.

Global Warming Fears Melting - by James M. Taylor - Environment & Climate News
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 20:56   #84
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
What impresses me is the utter certainty among lay people that the vast majority of scientists in relevant fields of study are simply wrong.

If I were going to bet the planet's future, I'd want something more than a hunch and a hatred of Al Gore to go on.

But hey, that's just me.
__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 21:05   #85
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
What impresses me is the utter certainty among lay people that the vast majority of scientists in relevant fields of study are simply wrong.
Would you trust a banker that changes the numbers in your account?
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 21:36   #86
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
I'm confused again. Were warming or were not can we agree that blasting c02 out aint a great idea and we could be more efficient with our/ my grand kids resources. Al gore aside shouldn't we look at how we can do better? THere is almost no controversy here except that some people feal warm and others like me are cold. Some like gore and others don't. In the US we are very wasteful. we should be the leaders in new technologies. WE should be leading in conservation. Id rather invest in energy managment then bailing out Aig or some other financial insurance giant. Is this effecting my sailing maybe. The chesapeake is windier then it used to be in the summer and the afternoon storms are more frequent in august I think.
__________________
sabray is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 22:29   #87
Registered User

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 38
I heard that Al Gore will soon be a billionaire trading in permission slips to destroy the planet. Seattle is built on seven hills of glacial till - we can't tell how many ice ages there have been, but we do know that about 2 miles of ice covered the spot I am sitting on now about 11,000 years ago. Ice ages last abount 100,000 years, warm periods about 10,000 years. I for one am breathing heavelly and have my SUV idling in the driveway now in the hopes that it will warm things up!
__________________
SeattleBaba is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 22:33   #88
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122


http://www.sciencebits.com/IceCoreTruth

As one can see, according to scientist, there has been a GW about every 100k years and it looks as though we're about due for another one. So the question is: is it man made or just another cycle?

Also, it is suggested the warming increases precede the CO2 increases. So who is one to believe? I look at the evidence and conclude it's the earth cycling and the politicians are trying to capitalize on it.

Sabray, Government is wasteful not the people. Don't generalize! Me and mine have been recycling and conserving since the 50's, and my parents of the depression before me. What other countries in the last 250 years has grown in health and technologies as well as the US? Maybe Germany but they lost the war! Now they send our efforts overseas for $$$$$$ as our hard working intelligent forefathers rot in their graves.

Hit on China for a while and see what answer you get back.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 22:36   #89
Registered User
 
bewitched's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 885
Images: 3
It is already having extremely harmful effects:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18383-major-antarctic-glacier-is-past-its-tipping-point.html

It is almost too late to do anything about it:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18374-avoiding-dangerous-warming-by-2100-barely-feasible.html

These are the countries that are doing the damage:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi-environment-co2-emissions

and we are still debating whether it even exists...........
__________________
bewitched is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 22:51   #90
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by bewitched View Post
It is already having extremely harmful effects:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18383-major-antarctic-glacier-is-past-its-tipping-point.html

It is almost too late to do anything about it:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18374-avoiding-dangerous-warming-by-2100-barely-feasible.html

These are the countries that are doing the damage:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_co2_emi-environment-co2-emissions

and we are still debating whether it even exists...........

WRONG!!! We're debating whether it's man made, or not!!!!

There is no doubt there is a warming trend! Wake up!
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising and the Coming Storm ~ Recession, Depression, Climate Change, Peak Oil jtbsail Off Topic Forum 162 13-10-2015 13:17
Wind & weather patterns meeeckja Navigation 18 02-01-2009 09:04
Climate Change GordMay Off Topic Forum 445 02-09-2008 08:48
weather patterns baja/hawaii? eldiente Pacific & South China Sea 8 10-01-2008 17:50
Healthiest coral reefs hardest hit by climate change GordMay Off Topic Forum 33 11-05-2007 03:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.