Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-01-2010, 18:46   #61
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Little Harbor Whisperjet 40
Posts: 334
What scares you more?

Speaking from a US perspective. The government, regardless of who is in power, has not been able to create a program that works. EVER. Cash for clunkers anyone? These are the guys you want to trust?

Without any taxes or mandates or protocols, the economy of living in America has caused me to.

Change to efficient lighting, efficient AC unit, then they doubled the rates.

Insulate my home walls ,ceilling, new windows. Replaced my boiler. Use programable thermostats, Now I use about 25% of the fuel oil compared to 5 years ago. They raised the price of fuel at least 4X.

So now I pollute less, big whoop. I'm going boating.
__________________

__________________
Highlander40 is offline  
Old 16-01-2010, 20:32   #62
Senior Cruiser
 
sneuman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2003
Location: Jamaica
Boat: Tayana 37 Cutter
Posts: 3,167
Images: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highlander40 View Post
Speaking from a US perspective. The government, regardless of who is in power, has not been able to create a program that works. EVER. Cash for clunkers anyone? These are the guys you want to trust?

Without any taxes or mandates or protocols, the economy of living in America has caused me to.

Change to efficient lighting, efficient AC unit, then they doubled the rates.

Insulate my home walls ,ceilling, new windows. Replaced my boiler. Use programable thermostats, Now I use about 25% of the fuel oil compared to 5 years ago. They raised the price of fuel at least 4X.

So now I pollute less, big whoop. I'm going boating.
Of course you're right. We only need to think of the transcontinental railroad, the national highway system, the Manhattan project or the effort to go to the moon.
__________________

__________________
Voyage of Symbiosis: http://svsymbiosis.blogspot.com/
sneuman is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 05:56   #63
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,312
the last ice age ended because cave men discovered fire and started burning fuel (wood). Now we need to become more focused on ways to make more efficient ice cubes for our drinks; then we can cool things back off.

Just to lighten it up.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 06:12   #64
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2008
Boat: Little Harbor Whisperjet 40
Posts: 334
That really puts it into perspective.
What have they done lately?
__________________
Highlander40 is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 06:59   #65
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,900
For those interested here is a link to a James Hansen presentation PDF.

AGU2008.Bjerknes_Lecture.pdf

In short what Hansen is saying is that there are warming effects and cooling effects. While we understand the warming contribution pretty well, we don't understand the cooling contribution (global dimming) nearly as well. Also the sun has been relatively quite, thus reducing forcing and we should be in a cooling period.

Now, if you remove the cooling (reduced particulate matter) the the Earth's temperature will jump, but we don't know how much.

It is a fairly pessimistic analysis. It shows how we may be getting ourselves into deep trouble without even knowing it.
__________________
hpeer is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 07:42   #66
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
For those interested here is a link to a James Hansen presentation PDF.

AGU2008.Bjerknes_Lecture.pdf
Updating the Climate Science ~ Makiko Sato & James Hansen
Makiko's Page

More from Dr. Hansen ➥ Dr. James E. Hansen
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 08:39   #67
Registered User
 
bobsadler's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shenzhen, China
Boat: Nauticat 42 (Jersey, U.K.)
Posts: 385
Send a message via Skype™ to bobsadler
"Science isn't like politics or art, where everyone's opinion is arguably equal. If you seek to refute a theory, you need a scientific theory of your own that better explains the data."

Wrong.

All you need is a single observation that doesn't match the theory's prediction and the theory is consigned to the dustbin of history.

It's called "falsification"

In the last 10 years there has been no net global warming (even the uber-AGW BBC reported this) and yet CO2 atmospheric content has risen inexorably.

That observation would be enough for most rational people to go back to a bit of head scratching before they trashed their economy and blew away trillions of dollars trying emulate King Canute.

Even today such rationalists do exist:

http://www.copenhagenclimatechalleng...tpage&Itemid=1
__________________
Bob
SV Karen M
http://www.freewebs.com/svkarenm/
bobsadler is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 09:19   #68
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsadler View Post
....In the last 10 years there has been no net global ... warming
Havenít you been reading?
The past 10 years have been the warmest in recorded history.

See: Climate Change: Evidence

And: Climate Change: Key Indicators

The time series below shows the combined global land and marine surface temperature record from 1850 to 2008. The year 2008 was tenth warmest on record, exceeded by 1998, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2001, 2007 and 1997. (A more detailed presentation of this dataset, including error bars and uncertainty ranges, is available from the Met Office Hadley Centre.)

Here: Met Office Hadley Centre observations datasets
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 09:52   #69
Registered User
 
bobsadler's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Shenzhen, China
Boat: Nauticat 42 (Jersey, U.K.)
Posts: 385
Send a message via Skype™ to bobsadler
how much more of this to come in the wake of the "climategate" emails as the butt covering starts:

World misled over Himalayan glacier meltdown - Times Online
__________________
Bob
SV Karen M
http://www.freewebs.com/svkarenm/
bobsadler is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 10:20   #70
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 341
Send a message via Skype™ to gosstyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
Havenít you been reading?
The past 10 years have been the warmest in recorded history. ...

The time series below shows the combined global land and marine surface temperature record from 1850 to 2008. The year 2008 was tenth warmest on record, exceeded by 1998, 2005, 2003, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2001, 2007 and 1997. ...
Interesting, however even if that data is valid I personally do not place a lot of significance in a 0.000004% sample size ( 158 years out of 4,500,000,000).
__________________
gosstyla is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 10:30   #71
Registered User
 
sabray's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wash DC
Boat: PETERSON 44
Posts: 3,169
well being a conservationist is cool. Its about being efficient with what you have and the way you use it. Making some changes doesn't have to be because you agree with global warming scares.
Natural or not we have some challenges. One of those tipping points occurs as siberia thaws and the peat bogs begin releasing the largest methane reserve huge numbers. This is the kind of event that could disrupt or change weather patterens. Siberia s peat bogs | India Environment Portal
__________________
sabray is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 11:37   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,900
Along the lines of methane release

Warming ocean contributes to global warming

Methane release, if it occurred, would be the nail in the coffin.
__________________
hpeer is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 11:41   #73
Senior Cruiser
 
hpeer's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Philadelphia
Boat: Murray 33-Chouette & Pape Steelmaid-44-Safara-both steel cutters
Posts: 3,900
2008 had the highest recorded concentration of icebergs off of Newfoundland. They were there because of the Greenland glaciers around Disko Bay breaking down and dumping at a higher rate.

2009 had a year of very high ice off the coast of Newfoundland for a long time. I'm less sure of this but I think the explanation is that the multi-year ice fields had broken up and were being flushed south.

So, yeah, it is affecting me.
__________________
hpeer is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 14:14   #74
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,580
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by gosstyla View Post
Interesting, however even if that data is valid I personally do not place a lot of significance in a 0.000004% sample size (158 years out of 4,500,000,000).
It does directly refute Bobís erroneous statement (post #67), as intended.
Which evidence you personally find/don't find significant, isn't very strong evidence of anything (except perhaps you knowledge and or ideology).
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline  
Old 17-01-2010, 14:46   #75
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane
Boat: deboated
Posts: 672
Quote:
Originally Posted by sneuman View Post
As a climate scientist yourself, we'd all be interested in your competing theory to explain the extraordinarily close correlation between the amount of carbon in the atmosphere and average global temperatures.
Other people are entitled to their opinion, its seems on this subject the rules are different. If your argument is so conclusive why was it necessary to adjust the data to suite the argument?
__________________

__________________
meyermm is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cruising and the Coming Storm ~ Recession, Depression, Climate Change, Peak Oil jtbsail Off Topic Forum 162 13-10-2015 13:17
Wind & weather patterns meeeckja Navigation 18 02-01-2009 09:04
Climate Change GordMay Off Topic Forum 445 02-09-2008 08:48
weather patterns baja/hawaii? eldiente Pacific & South China Sea 8 10-01-2008 17:50
Healthiest coral reefs hardest hit by climate change GordMay Off Topic Forum 33 11-05-2007 03:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:10.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.