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Old 20-03-2010, 09:15   #46
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Another problem is one-size-fits-all thinking.

It doesn't.

* We suggest what fits our current boat, rather than the poster's boat or our first boat. * We forget rivers and oceans are different.
* We suggest what fits our current age.

In part this is because we want to share what we know on ALL boats and situations, and because we just want to joint the conversations.

Some of my best posts were good only because I reconsidered and went back and deleted them, 30 seconds later.

"Climbing (sailing) is like fun, only different."

Tom Pattey, Scottish ice climber
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Old 20-03-2010, 09:31   #47
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Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
Some of my best posts were good only because I reconsidered and went back and deleted them, 30 seconds later.
I wish I would have come up with that...It would be in my signature line..

"Go simple, go large!".

Relationships are everything to me...everything else in life is just a tool to enhance them.
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Old 20-03-2010, 09:31   #48

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From what I've seen, every forum has the same "issues", just at different levels. Some of them completely implode more quickly than others when the fun, diversity, and welcoming nature die due to cliquishness. But, all in all, the major sailing sites just have different personalities. And that's cool.

Hang in there Don. It may never be exactly what you want, but it will probably always be pretty tolerable.
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Old 21-03-2010, 15:28   #49
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When good forums go bad...

Don, I joined CF for pretty much the same reasons you're leaving it... I used to drop by regularly for information and entertainment, but didn't sign up as a poster as the weight of expertise here seemed eminently sufficient without my two cents.

Then along came the infamous "yachting FAIL" thread, in which a close friend of mine was subjected to a barrage of ill-informed, nasty, ill-spirited and personal attacks from many of the same members I had come to respect. I watched in dismay for a few days, fully expecting the thread to be closed, but when instead it was defended - by a moderator no less - on the basis that because my friend had become a "public figure", she was somehow immune from the standards of basic human decency which are enshrined in detail in the CF rules, I felt the need to sign up and stand up.

Anyway that thread was eventually closed, and although to this day I still do not know why it was allowed to continue for so long, to me it is the exception which proves the rule. I've stuck around because this is basically a great place with decent, loyal folks who have a genuine passion for the subject matter, and a genuine respect for each other at a level much higher than I see in other internet forums.

Every once in a while, chaos theory dictates that a butterfly will flap its wings too strongly and a storm will brew up where you least expect it. Usually it's easy enough to ignore it and move on. Just pray it isn't over someone or something you love...
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Old 21-03-2010, 16:03   #50
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"I'm not sure if I fail to disagree with that or not."
Uh, say again Gord....?

There is remarkably little sexist/racist/homophobic/otherwise offensive behaviour here compared to some, including other sailing sites
Hah, we can fix that, stay tuned...
Life is sexually transmitted
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Old 21-03-2010, 16:47   #51
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I love this thread, because I believe:

1) sailing is sailing and talking about sailing is ... yes - just talking about sailing. This is a great forum with some good and bad, but this is the BEST sailing cruising forum I have found on the net (and, yes - I have been kicked out of another one before ;-)))

2) It is difficult to talk sense with the ignorant ... YET, we had all been ignorant at a point before we started learning, and we still are, no matter how much knowledge we have in one or more fields of the cruising life.

So, sometime people here will send me THX, at other times I will get pasted. I take it all in. Learning is great. Learning how to learn is one of the things I have learned better by participating here.

THX CF: Yes, we can ;-)

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Old 22-03-2010, 03:46   #52
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Originally Posted by CSY Man View Post
Uh, say again Gord....?
A linguistics professor was lecturing to his class one day. "In English," he said, "A double negative forms a positive. In some languages, though, such as Russian, a double negative is still a negative. However, there is no language wherein a double positive can form a negative."
A voice from the back of the room piped up, "Yeah, right."

George L. Trigg on Grammar ~ from the journal “Physics Review Letters”, March 19, 1979

It is said that back in the 1940's, the following message was prominently displayed at the front of the main chemistry lecture hall at a major university:

"The English language is your most versatile scientific instrument. Learn to use it with precision."

In the intervening years, the teaching of proper grammar in the public elementary and high schools fell into disfavor. The inevitable result is that manuscripts submitted to us are often full of grammatical errors, which their authors probably do not even recognize (and often would not care about if they did).

We regard this state of affairs as deplorable, and we want to do something about it. For many years we have tried to correct the grammar of papers that we publish. This is toilsome at best, and sometimes entails rather substantial rephrasing. It would obviously be preferable to have authors use correct grammar in the first place. The problem is how to get them to do it.

One fairly effective way is to provide examples of what not to do; it is particularly helpful if the examples are humorous. We have recently seen several lists of grammatical examples of this type. A few weeks ago we found taped to a colleague's office door the most complete one we have seen. (He tells us it was passed out in a class of Darthmouth - not in English - at the time a term paper was assigned). We reproduce it here in the hope that it will have some effect.

1. Make sure each pronoun agrees with their antecedent.
2. Just between you and I, the case of pronoun is important.
3. Watch out for irregular verbs which have crope into English.
4. Verbs has to agree in number with their subjects.
5. Don't use no double negatives.
6. Being bad grammar, a writer should not use dangling modifiers.
7. Join clauses good like a conjunction should.
8. A writer must be not shift your point of view.
9. About sentence fragments.
10. Don't use run-on sentences you got to punctuate them.
11. In letters essays and reports use commas to separate items in series.
12. Don't use commas, which are not necessary.
13. Parenthetical words however should be enclosed in commas.
14. Its important to use apostrophes right in everybodys writing.
15. Don't abbrev.
16. Check to see if you any words out.
17. In the case of a report, check to see that jargonwise, it's A-OK.
18. As far as incomplete constructions, they are wrong.
19. About repetition, the repetition of a word might be real effective repetition - take, for instance the repetition of Abraham Lincoln.
20. In my opinion, I think that an author when he is writing should definitely not get into the habit of making use of too many unnecessary words that he does not really need in order to put his message across.
21. Use parallel construction not only to be concise but also clarify.
22. It behooves us all to avoid archaic expressions.
23. Mixed metaphors are a pain in the neck and ought to be weeded out.
24. Consult the dictionery to avoid mispelings.
25. To ignorantly split an infinitive is a practice to religiously avoid.
26. Last but not least, lay off cliches.
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"

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Old 22-03-2010, 04:09   #53
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If people even understood what these rules met we all could mis-understand each other properly!

But talk about thread drift!
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Old 22-03-2010, 04:20   #54
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I think you guys do an admirable job. Cudos

Don, wanna suffer slings and arrows? Come on over to SA. Better zip on a couple extra layers of thick skin and be prepared to be lambasted from all sides. SA is a sight that is often humorous, sometimes fun but mostly tedious.

Originally Posted by David M View Post
We really do try to create a website that gets as close as possible to the impossible goal of pleasing everyone. If everyone had the same needs and personalities then this goal would be achievable.

Cruisers Forum is very open to ways to improve the website. Just PM Janet or Andy or any of the moderators with your ideas or constructive criticism.

A significant amount of discussion goes on behind the scenes on how to better moderate the website and how to improve the website, including members ideas on how to improve Cruisers Forum. I think most members would be surprised at just how much discussion occurs. This comes from a bunch of volunteers. Many volunteers spend a few hours a day here.

If we do not receive input from you then how do we know how to make things better? Your input is encouraged and does make a difference.
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Old 22-03-2010, 04:37   #55
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If I wanted to be belittled all the time I would just call my kids!
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Old 22-03-2010, 05:20   #56
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I can live with the freddrift, and with differing opinions (normally due to different requirements or sailing styles).

What raised my ire was my perception that a commercial vendor was blatantly breaking the CF rules, and the only people being banned were those trying to highlight the problem.

A lot of people do read these threads as a means to gain good feedback on equipment, and it is important that CF makes sure that adverts are really easily recognised, and that advertised claims can be substantiated. People consistently breaching these rules should be disciplined or banned.

Furthermore, when face to face, it is much easier to assess the background experience which makes one response of more value than another. That is very difficult on a forum unless you have been a member for a reasonable length of time, and know some of the people's background. Asking us to provide more data in our profiles is not the answer because some are more sensitive to their details being available than others.
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
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Old 22-03-2010, 08:04   #57
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Well said Talbot!
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Old 22-03-2010, 08:19   #58
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I know what you mean about thread drift. But it's a problem in virtually every forum I'm on. Someone asks a question. Two or three, five at the max replies later and we're replying to replies, not the OP question or comment. It's very tiresome for sure. And you hit the nail on the head in that every forum has a small group of experts who like to have the 'right' answer and will argue no end. Meanwhile the original question is totally forgotten. The internet is a perfect outlet for those who have no manners, but all the answers...

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
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Old 22-03-2010, 08:38   #59
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Hey Don - as an ex-nuke you should have a high tolerance for BS as well as the ability to tune it out and find the substance / value you seek. Not everyone here is polite, knowledgeable, bad or incompetent.... but you can guess which category they fit into by the substance and tone of their posts.

I would guess that everyone here has their "moments" - but overall I've found this forum to be well worth the aggravation. I have saved countless $$ and more time by tapping the knowledge here than I could have imagined at the start.

Blow off the BS, contribute what you know and open a brew while you observe the inevitable diatribes.... It's all good.

ex submarine LDO myself... this (forum) stuff we can do standing on our heads... usually in the bilge....
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Old 22-03-2010, 08:48   #60
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Eschew Obfuscation

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