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Old 07-08-2011, 11:21   #61
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

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West Marine matches prices with other brick & mortar stores.

How can you get any more competitive?

Whenever Cabelas, Bass Pro Shops, Sports Academy etc. publish a sale bulletin our sales go up as we match their prices and you do not have to leave the waterfront.

Tom
West Marine is running a Gross Profit margin of approx. 28%. That is not excessive for a retail operation. (Best Buy is approx. 25%)

A bit of concern, albeit only something that one needs to keep an eye on is that they are becoming more dependent on financing then income for cashflow. Income cashflow is on a downward trend, whereas financing cashflow on an upward one. Still, they have a relatively healthy balance sheet with a very good current asset to liability ratio.

Inventory levels are well in line, doing about 3 turns a year.

All information from West Marine, Inc.: NASDAQ:WMAR quotes & news - Google Finance

Every retailer has their detractors, but the question is, would you rather have a West Marine available to you or not?
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:34   #62
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

If you look at the posts in CF, you'll see that comparatively, yes we are the rich. Just looks at the posts regarding spending 2-3k on a feathering prop, when your boat already has a prop. and yeah.....As Gord says....
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:57   #63
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

As I think back to when I was 21 and had just started my first job after college and had started putting a down payment to order my first yacht ( or as we call it sailboat) a 12 ft Hobie monocat. I was not rich and could just afford the Hobie kind of (if I scremped on food). I didn't think folks with yachts were rich but they had just been climbing the boating ladder longer than a 21 year old guy. After I got my 12 ft Hobie monocat Yacht I got many a offer to crew on the bigger yachts from guy's that wanted a crew for an afternoon race, I guess they thought " If you owned your own yacht ( even a 12 ft hobie monocat ) you would respect there yacht" and even if we didn't win the race it was fun and educational for me. There were those guy's who used to joke about ( the difference from a man to a boy was the size of there toys ). Now that I'm in my 60's where's those 21 year old sailors to help crew my bigger catamaran yacht when my wife's out of town ? I guess they are playing some computer game indoors and have been taught by there single moms to fear everything outside.
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Old 07-08-2011, 12:45   #64
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

When my GF sent pictures of my boat to her Filipino relatives, both in the U.S. and Philippines, we were said to be living the life of the "rich and famous." Regardless, the value of my boat and house together is less the median value of houses for most of California.
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Old 07-08-2011, 13:11   #65
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

"Wealth" is such a relative term. Are we middle class American "yacht" owners wealthy compared to the poor of Somalia? Incredibly so. Are we wealthy compared to a Bill Gates? Incredibly NOT. This kind of exercise is useless because it is all relative. Everyone lives in his/her own circumstance, primarily by sheer chance of birth. What we do in our own little space is no one's concern but our own. Jealousy is a part of the human psyche, part of our monkey genetics and there is nothing to be done about it. The wise put it in a box and ignore it. Therefore, the important issue is whether we have the self confidence to do what makes us happy within our means and without regard to those who depend on the approval of others for their happiness.
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Old 07-08-2011, 13:16   #66
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I'm not sure that most landbased people (including beaurocrats) view us all as rich, or yachties, or whatever else. (a US only perspective)... The US has several million boatowners, and the statistics lawmakers use do not distinguish between jetski's and 60 foot yachts (but they do often distinguish between income and gross assets).

Most of the landbased people I know can't tell the difference between a 16' Tahoe and a 40' Hinkley. They have no clue how much either costs... My parents, for example, (who just came down for a visit) where shocked at the prices for some of the boats for sale in my marina. They had no idea boats were so expensive... They even asked the specific question, "what's the difference between a yacht and a boat", to which I explained, a yacht is simply a word rich people use to distinguish their expensive boat from the all the lesser boats....

There is a shore based Judgement on the term yacht, but for general purposes, it's used within the boating community for one guy to feel bigger than another...

Shore based people hear the word yacht and think money, because that's what they've been taught, but when I say 'I live on boat' they think it's strange (or realy cool), and probably uncomfortable...sometimes even a little trashy, like they view living in an RV... They dont think 'yacht'. They can see ME and know I'm not rich, and if I were to use the term yacht to describe my boat, it would probably sound extremely pretentious and fake from their perspective.

It's obvious when you see a gaudy megayacht, but for most boats, shorefolks really don't care that much...

When I go to a restaurant, or bar, or shopping store, I'm just the same as everyone else in the place. And when I pay my taxes, I do it the same as anyone else in my income bracket. It's only within these social circles that the differences are drawn out...
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Old 07-08-2011, 13:57   #67
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

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Originally Posted by smurphny View Post
"Wealth" is such a relative term. Are we middle class American "yacht" owners wealthy compared to the poor of Somalia? Incredibly so. Are we wealthy compared to a Bill Gates? Incredibly NOT. This kind of exercise is useless because it is all relative. Everyone lives in his/her own circumstance, primarily by sheer chance of birth. What we do in our own little space is no one's concern but our own. Jealousy is a part of the human psyche, part of our monkey genetics and there is nothing to be done about it. The wise put it in a box and ignore it. Therefore, the important issue is whether we have the self confidence to do what makes us happy within our means and without regard to those who depend on the approval of others for their happiness.
I like and agree with this statement DVC
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Old 07-08-2011, 14:56   #68
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

In the US, "yacht" is how you describe your boat to someone who has never seen it...... and never will.
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Old 07-08-2011, 16:27   #69
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

I think it would be fair to say that most boat owners have made other sacrifices in their consumption patterns in order to allow for the costs of boat ownership. I see a growing willingness in the US to demonize those who seem to have more than others without any regard to HOW they managed it or what sacrifices were made. If things progress this way, I fully expect a new law saying that boat owners MUST take at least 3 poor people sailing every week in order to achieve "social justice".
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Old 07-08-2011, 17:20   #70
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

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I see a growing willingness in the US to demonize those who seem to have more than others without any regard to HOW they managed it or what sacrifices were made.
Mike
I think this is right. It's a bias that's off the mark. Most people I know in the boating community seem to have worked long and hard and have used their money wisely. When the "how" part of this equals hard work, no one can deny that person the fruits of his/her work. With the great disparity of wealth we see now, when the "how" equals unearned money from shuffling papers and/or taking advantage of others and receiving grossly inflated amounts for doing very little--that's what raises the ire of Americans. We get painted with the same brush. But sailing takes a lot of effort and knowledge. The mega-yacht set aside, sailing generally seems to appeal to a hard working ilk, no matter what their profession.
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Old 07-08-2011, 18:27   #71
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

A cruiser can consider their vessel as a moveable home.
In Australia a median price home often costs $500,000 and the owner would never be considered wealthy. Even somebody with a second investment home being paid ofor by rent would not be considerd wealthy. Well off maybe. Now if they had a sailboat at the marina perception could be different.
Choosing the correct vessel ( one that will hold its value or has depreciated) can give you a home on the water for less than that and one where the view can change as you chose.
The correct choice could also allow you to cash back to a home on land if health issues ever force you ashore.
The perception might be that you are wealthy when in reality you are similar to a landlubber.
You certainly will have a wealthy outlook on life.
Cheers
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Old 07-08-2011, 18:35   #72
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

There are people here who would like to discuss the subject of the thread and who appear to have no problem leaving out the politics and off topic BS. As for the rest of you, if you can't steer clear of the off topic and out of bounds stuff then don't post.

Next one closes the thread.


*I've deleted several posts ... in case anyone was wondering. I forget sometimes that you can't tell when it's happened.
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Old 07-08-2011, 18:48   #73
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

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.... The mega-yacht set aside, sailing generally seems to appeal to a hard working ilk, no matter what their profession.
Smurphny, in Australia they call it the “tall poppy syndrome” and maybe that jealousy of yacht owners stems from a look at their own circumstances, when they see the slick yachting magazine covers.

But I think many here are guilty of that same perception when you demonize the Super Yacht Owners for taking it to the highest level.

I am an unabashed fan of the capitalist system of reward for effort and abilities.

The self-made SY Owners I have worked for are the hardest working people I have ever met. They seem to operate on a multifunctional level of satisfying corporate responsibilities on a 24/7 bases by developing sophisticated floating offices and support staff, while still having private time with family and friends in remote places.

The demands on them are great, so the solutions are even greater…

The custom yachts they bankroll are the leading edge in craftsmanship and technology, funding modern day artisans to their maximum potential.

It is the best example of capitalism, by spreading the wealth in support of talented innovators and builders

Why do some fellow yachtsmen resent that?
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Old 07-08-2011, 19:52   #74
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

Envy is a very common emotion in the general public. Most "muggles" (shore living people, let us say) go through life picking one another's pockets or more accurately having a third party do the pocket picking for them. Almost every corner of their lives is subsidized by some one else. Roads, bridges, schools, museums, train tickets, food through farm subsidies and more. And all these subsidies must be funded some how if not through tax then through debt. Boaters on the other hand ask very little from the shore side world. We take care of our boats and they tend to look preaty good especially to the untutored eye. Things that look good are preceived to be costly. And so we are a target for the tax hungry muggle.

But equally importantly, we look free. We look to be held to the their shore world of hassle by only 8 lengths of dock line plus the shore power cord. We are a living demonstration that most of what the muggle prizes is actually of no value at all. MTV? Nope. Network news? What's that? A three car garage? Not me. Golf clubs? No way. Again, envy. And I want you to know, I am alright with that.
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Old 07-08-2011, 20:32   #75
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Re: Wealth ! . . . How Yacht Owners Are Perceived

I think one of the things that appeals to me most about becoming a yachty is that this lifestyle defies categorisation. This thread is good evidence for that fact.

Special taxes on yachts as a "leisure item" are not necessarily fair and accurate - particularly in jurisdictions where home owners may be entitled to special tax credits and sport 'utility' vehicle owners have received special subsidies. This kind of discriminatory treatment may be a ploy by politicians to be seen as "socking it to the man" where in reality yacht owners are a diverse group and any such "socking" is entirely indiscriminate.
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