Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 10-02-2010, 10:07   #16
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 769
Well... you can't ever "break" the laws of physics. The best you can hope for is to modify them by working in a regime that is as yet poorly understood. It'll always be a modification, however... never a break. Breaks don't happen.

There may be an awful lot of wiggle room yet in the engineering of desalination. Worthy of thought.
__________________

__________________
anotherT34C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 10:12   #17
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
Someone once said you cant reinvent the wheel.

Why fix what aint bust, but there are other ways to get from A to B
The Catapillar track is an example. It also has its uses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ViribusUnitis View Post
Quick back ground. I am a chemical engineer. My job is to do similar process analysis to this. (In other words, I'm a "classicly trained type" to do exactly this.)

The act of removing hydrogen from water requires huge amounts of energy. We're talking kW of energy for fractions of a gallon per minute.

If you attempted to use a fuel cell to recover that energy in combining the hydrogen and oxygen to produce water, at best you would only recover about half the energy you put in to generate the hydrogen. With a fuel cell that you could afford to buy, and operate on a boat, you’re probably looking at recovering roughly a third of the energy used to generate the hydrogen.

Plus, the cost would be high to build the device, even with the low efficency fuel cell.

Not a bad idea, but it just wouldn't be better than a more traditional RO watermaker.
__________________

__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 10:15   #18
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,594
Water falls from the sky and it's free. Collect it...
__________________
Randy

Cape Dory 25D Seraph
rtbates is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 10:53   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: San Juan Island, WA.
Boat: Mariner 32 ketch- Independence
Posts: 78
I posted this earlier but got no resposnse which surprised me as I think this could be big;

Just read in the latest Popular Science about a new RO filter being developed by a Danish company to extract pure H2O from salt water at about a third of the cost and a tenth of the energy of conventional RO systems. No pumps are required. I think it is being developed for larger community water systems but maybe we as cruisers could benifit from this before long.
Dan
__________________
San Juan Sailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:04   #20
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
I just saw something on the discovery channel about some strands someone is making that uses capillary action to purify waste water...they bundle a bunch of them together and blah...blah...blah......interesting stuff.
__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:07   #21
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905
So my wonder discovery of dehydrated water is already obselete?

As for water falling free from the sky, ......next you will tell me firewood grows on trees
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:08   #22
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
... But the sky is full of air and its all around us, so its a ready source of water...
There are about 380 quadrillion gallons of Atmospheric Water (humidity) available at any given time throughout the world.

This humidity can be converted to potable drinking water.

Google “Atmospheric Water Generator” or “Water from Air”.
Or
Goto ➥ Atmospheric water generator - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 11:19   #23
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,310
Of course if you stored "water" this way as H2 and O2 at least you would have a nice bomb if you even had a pirate problem :-)

Heres to hoping for carbon nano technology to solve the problem.
__________________
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 12:46   #24
Registered User
 
Fishman_Tx's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Beeville, Tx.
Boat: 1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch "Lady Catherine II", 1973 Bristol 34 - "Our Baby"(RIP), Catalina 22
Posts: 876
Images: 12
Ok guys, here it is, and it's designed for sailboats too. Still in development, i guess but coming soon....

Are fuel cells poised to become a serious option for voyagers?

http://www.hbmarine.com/
__________________
Fish
"Behind every great man there is a woman, rolling her eyes."
But not for long! Now she's gone!
and peace and tranquility reign forever!
1969 Morgan 40 Cruising Ketch
Fishman_Tx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 13:08   #25
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
Have you thought about just setting up a system to collect water that naturally falls from the sky. We spent a year in French Polynesia and kept our tanks full collecting rainwater off our awning. You can also do it off the mainsail while sailing with a little ingenuity. Unfortunately, doesn't work quite as well in arid areas like Mexico.
__________________
roverhi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 13:35   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kitsap Penninsula, WA
Boat: C&C Mega 30
Posts: 87
So, in a boat, you're considering combining hydrogen and oxygen to make water. Seems more efficient to just separate the salt from all the water surrounding you.

Maybe you could boil it and collect the condensed vapor? it would take a heat element and a cooling element in close proximity, and the heating would probably take a lot of energy comparative to the water output. So, how warm do those black bag shower heaters get? And is it less expensive to create a vacuum to boil water at a cooler temperature than to force it through a water maker membrane?

20 years ago I lived on the Red Sea coast of Saudi Arabia, and the comments about the capillary action reminds me that they had a water plant that we were told did something like that (I was in 6th grade, I don't remember the details).

But don't you people realize the dangers of this substance you are trying to create? you need to look at Dihydrogen Monoxide - DHMO.org DIHDRYOGEN MONOXIDE Headline Page to understand the dangers of what you are trying to create!!!
__________________
wannago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 13:36   #27
Registered User
 
mintyspilot's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 834
Why not revert to simple distillation using sunlight as a heating source? By using some curved metal sheet to make a shiny reflector you can boil water. Pass the steam through tubing in a bucket of cold water and fresh water comes out the other end.

Salt water in, fresh water out, sunlight for power...
__________________
mintyspilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 13:41   #28
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 769
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Of course if you stored "water" this way as H2 and O2 at least you would have a nice bomb if you even had a pirate problem :-)

Heres to hoping for carbon nano technology to solve the problem.
If I were a betting person, that's where my money would go.

https://publicaffairs.llnl.gov/news/news_releases/2006/NR-06-05-06.html

The date on the press release was 2006. The technlogy has been licensed to these guys...

Welcome to Porifera, Inc.
__________________
anotherT34C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 14:20   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 24
anyone see the web site on the ban of dihydrogen monoxide??? pene giellite(sp) the magician started the site dihydron H2...monoxide O...people where standing in line to ban this killer of humans.if we could bottle it we could add it to powdered water????
__________________
dirtydon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2010, 14:24   #30
Registered User
 
James S's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Yemen & Lebanon... the sailboat is in Lebenon, the dhow is in Yemen
Boat: 1978 CT48 & 65ft Cargo Dhow
Posts: 5,816
Images: 139
I just read the article from the link and I'm in as well.
but one question...we cant make a membrane with the same size opening as Nano tubes...I thought the conventional water maker membrane has holes even smaller.
Is it the "smoothness" that hard to replicate at that scale?
__________________

__________________
James
S/V Arctic Lady
I love my boat, I can't afford not to!
James S is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Poly Water Bags - Water Tastes Like Plastic! Mulgaretreat Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 29 09-09-2012 13:12
Raw-water to fresh-water cooling conversion Catamount Engines and Propulsion Systems 31 06-05-2012 08:29
Water Tanks...Upgrading to Drinkable Water cyberkitty Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 7 12-02-2010 15:16
Blue Water or Fresh Water? John-in-Hamilton General Sailing Forum 13 26-08-2009 02:11



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:39.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.