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Old 04-10-2012, 08:04   #16
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

"me would run my car by burning Penguins if I could (it's sustainable - and funny!)."

Thanks for the laugh!
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Old 04-10-2012, 23:39   #17
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Wrong. Edison never claimed that his lightbulb was able to violate the known laws of physics.

Besides, the concept of creating light by running electricity through a thin wire was well-known and had been demonstrated many times before Edison even got interested in it. What he did was figure out a way to take the basic concept and turn it into a viable consumer product.

(Which is not meant to denigrate Edison's contribution. What he did was a remarkable accomplishment and changed the way we live our lives. He just didn't "invent" the idea of making light by running electricity through a wire.)
Wrong? In what way? My short summation is historically accurate and also fits what you said.

Laws of physics? The human mind spends its first four years trying to learn how to tie shoelaces. Some of us never do quite get it. Lol

Laws of physics. An adage passed from lips of the assimilated to the ears of the sheepel.

The navy invented an engine that runs on zero fuel in 1973. Documentary filmmaker shows what, who, and where it was invented. Shows the engine (s) in detail. Shows two of them working. One had 23 million revolutions with no sign of stopping. The engine tested stronger at the end of the test than it did at he start.

Accepting the laws of physics is accepting less than can be shown to be valid, if one looks around to question answers from the past.
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Old 05-10-2012, 00:18   #18
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post
...................
.....The big problem with replacing oil in the economy is not technoligical - it's the problem of replacing the tax take.
I agree with DOJ. The cynic in me has always believed that the Oil Crisis is a bit of a beat up. Yes it is a finite resource but I believe that there are other technologies that could be further developed and also ones that are yet to be developed which will be able to replace oil. But what the hell will governments do worldwide if that stream of tax income dries up.

A case in point. We used to have a TV show here in Australia called "The Inventors" where all types of new inventions and gadgets were displayed by their inventors. Around 15 - 20 years ago there was a guy who developed a module that was attached to your car engine which allowed the motor to run on pure water from your garden hose. The engine still needed a very small petrol fuel tank for initial ignition but after ignition was achieved the motor ran entirely on water. The device was tested by Sydney University as part of the product evaluation on the program who confirmed that the technology worked. Performance was not that of a Ferrari and more R&D was required to improve it. Anyway the guy won the series for the year.

As a follow up from time to time on the program they often had a segment "Whatever happened to an Invention". They followed up this invention and I'm sure that you will not be surprised to hear that the technology had been purchased by BP (British Petroleum) for an undisclosed amount and the inventor was gagged from speaking or working on similar technology in the future. It would now be locked away in the vaults of BP & maybe they have continued the R&D so that they are ready for the day that oil in unsustainable.

I'm sure that there are many other technological developments like this that have suffered a similar fate.
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Old 05-10-2012, 00:32   #19
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

Oh no, not another 100mpg carburetor gobbled up by big oil. Makes a great urban legend but is entirely bull crap.
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Old 05-10-2012, 00:41   #20
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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Oh no, not another 100mpg carburetor gobbled up by big oil. Makes a great urban legend but is entirely bull crap.
I do not know what the hell you are talking about - what is a great urban legend & entirely bull crap?

The story that I wrote about in my post above is 100% true. I used to watch this TV show religiously every week and this is exactly what happened.
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Old 05-10-2012, 00:51   #21
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

Everything you see on TV is true!!!!!!! Just another variation of a story I first heard more than a 1/2 century ago and it wasn't new then. Every few years a miracle engine turns up and looks wonderful until the guy behind the curtain, ala Wizard of Oz, is exposed and it quietly disappears. That's not your Oz btw.

The urban legend about the miracle engine, carburetor, etc. has been around probably as long as there has been a need for energy, horse, Steam, internal combustion engine or what have you. if there was such a something from nothing energy source that could be perfected, no oil company or any company or nation for that matter, would be able to keep it under wraps for long. The nuclear bomb is a fine example. Took the Soviets less than a decade to duplicate with a little help from their friends. Now, even a country as backwards as N. Korea can build one.
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Old 05-10-2012, 00:59   #22
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

When you burn carbon chains (jet fuel or whatever) the products are CO2 and water and energy. To go back the opposite way you have to put energy back into it. When you burn hydrogen you get water and energy. Again to do the reaction in reverse you have to put energy in.

If anyone has found a way around this you have the equivalent to the perpetual motion machine, and the fundamentals of physics and chemistry are all wrong.
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Old 05-10-2012, 02:19   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle

I agree with DOJ. The cynic in me has always believed that the Oil Crisis is a bit of a beat up. Yes it is a finite resource but I believe that there are other technologies that could be further developed and also ones that are yet to be developed which will be able to replace oil. But what the hell will governments do worldwide if that stream of tax income dries up.

A case in point. We used to have a TV show here in Australia called "The Inventors" where all types of new inventions and gadgets were displayed by their inventors. Around 15 - 20 years ago there was a guy who developed a module that was attached to your car engine which allowed the motor to run on pure water from your garden hose. The engine still needed a very small petrol fuel tank for initial ignition but after ignition was achieved the motor ran entirely on water. The device was tested by Sydney University as part of the product evaluation on the program who confirmed that the technology worked. Performance was not that of a Ferrari and more R&D was required to improve it. Anyway the guy won the series for the year.

As a follow up from time to time on the program they often had a segment "Whatever happened to an Invention". They followed up this invention and I'm sure that you will not be surprised to hear that the technology had been purchased by BP (British Petroleum) for an undisclosed amount and the inventor was gagged from speaking or working on similar technology in the future. It would now be locked away in the vaults of BP & maybe they have continued the R&D so that they are ready for the day that oil in unsustainable.

I'm sure that there are many other technological developments like this that have suffered a similar fate.
You are correct, I believe the show you saw was real. I live in the states so I did not see it, but I have seen first hand that water can be burned as fuel. I experimented with splitting water and I believe it can be done. I have seen water fueled cars, water fueled 18 wheelers, water fueled welders and cutting torches. It boils down to taxes. If you burn water, where do you pay fuel taxes to?

Lets say everyone in this forum was in prison. Doing life terms. No chance of parole. We were all settled into our routine and waiting out our time.

Then one of us finds a key to the doors. Once outside, we would be free. Talking about it a little too loud, a jailer overheard the conversations about the key, and took it away.

The story above is all of us using oil, and the key is alternative fuels. The whole earths economy is based on what? Corn? Coffee beans? Pine lumbar? The whole Earths economy is based on energy sales and oil is the biggest player. If we invent something that stops the oil economy, we would see global wars pushing us back to the Stone Age.

I owned a van that got over 100 mpg. So I know technology igsist to build such cars.

I was a teen of 16 or so, and a neighbor died. My best friends Mom was their next door neighbor, and friends with the widow. My best friend told me the guys van was for sale. I talked to the woman, and the vehicle was a Corvair van, 1963 as I remember back. I agreed to give her 400 dollars for the van and that was my first vehicle.

As we filled out paperwork, I nervously asked her questions about the van. Pretty excited to have my own wheels. One question I asked was about fuel. I asked what grade of fuel he used. She dug out his receipts and it used low test, or regular. She gave me the receipts and other paperwork. I asked her if he drove much, because their we're so few gas tickets. She said he drove it everyday. I asked how often he bought gas, and she paused, and said I think he filled the tank once a year. Her answer seemed odd and wrong, and stuck in my mind as the answer of an old woman that did not understand my question. I was in a hurry to drive away in my new van, so once she handed me the key, I was off.

Here is where it gets interesting.

I started it up, and limped away. My mothers car had a V8 and had power, this thing had very little acceleration at all. It would not speed up even on a modest hill, but it would maintain speed on hills.

Gas was cheep, 26 cents a gallon and I felt like a big shot filling up my own van. I noticed I was going all over and not using hardly any fuel.

The lack of power bothered me, and I noticed he had altered the double air intakes and had altered the carbs. I asked the woman if she had the original engine parts, and in his garage, I found the stuff he had removed. She gave me the stuff, and I and my friend went to work taking off his stuff, and putting on the stuff as it belonged, with the help of a parts store, because we got stuck a couple times figuring out vacuum hoses and stuff like that. It was the parts store that told me the van would never run the way it was.

Started it up, and now it had all kinds of power. Climbed hills and drank gas like my mothers V8.

To a 16 year old kid, I did not know what I had, and I did not care. All I wanted was a normal vehicle to race down the street. The stuff we took off? Threw it away I guess, don't much remember what it was. I do remember one carb was the only one with control levers on it. The second carb was only driven by the vacuum of the engine, no accelerator linkage at all. That is a big reason it had no power to climb hills.

This was not a tv show, this was my first vehicle. I know that van was getting way over 100 mpg. Maybe twice that.

Ended up with another's neighbors car, a V8 Pontiac. Ten bucks! Had a broken bolt in the front suspension. Fixed it in less than an hour and then I really had power.

A tie rod broke off the van jumping railroad tracks, and I just abandoned it in the railroad yards. Never to see it again.

When the first oil crisis hit, I remembered the Corvair van and wished I still had it and I had left it alone.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:56   #24
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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Originally Posted by Ozbullwinkle View Post
A case in point. We used to have a TV show here in Australia called "The Inventors" where all types of new inventions and gadgets were displayed by their inventors. Around 15 - 20 years ago there was a guy who developed a module that was attached to your car engine which allowed the motor to run on pure water from your garden hose. The engine still needed a very small petrol fuel tank for initial ignition but after ignition was achieved the motor ran entirely on water. The device was tested by Sydney University as part of the product evaluation on the program who confirmed that the technology worked. Performance was not that of a Ferrari and more R&D was required to improve it. Anyway the guy won the series for the year.

As a follow up from time to time on the program they often had a segment "Whatever happened to an Invention". They followed up this invention and I'm sure that you will not be surprised to hear that the technology had been purchased by BP (British Petroleum) for an undisclosed amount and the inventor was gagged from speaking or working on similar technology in the future. It would now be locked away in the vaults of BP & maybe they have continued the R&D so that they are ready for the day that oil in unsustainable.
I am quite sure that most of what you write here is pure nonsense.

Basically if what you tell is true, than BP and the rest of big oil are not the greedy capitalists everybody asumes they are. I find that hard to believe. You think that PB's management would pass on an opportunity to become the wealthiest persons in the world overnight?

If what you tell is true, than about everything the majority of scientists accept to be true about the universe is false. If find that hard to believe too.

So I call bullshit here.
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:11   #25
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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E if there was such a something from nothing energy source that could be perfected, no oil company or any company or nation for that matter, would be able to keep it under wraps for long.
People always seem to forget a few things...

- Patents are public. It's impossible to buy up an already published invention and make it secret again. And who owns what patents is also a matter of public record.
- When the time ripe for some new technological breakthrough it usually gets invented several times independently. The lightbulb was invented more or less simultaneously in the UK and the US. Same for the internal combustion engine.

- A disruptive technology that endangers the profits of incumbents is never a danger to the profits of who owns it. If an oil company would be in the possesion of such a mythical free energy device they could make more money by stopping to pump op oil (which is not very profitable anyway) and sell the device in stead.
Arguing that oil companies buy up disruptive technology and then do nothing with it is arguing that they are somehow not greedy bastards...

I am doing my shopping today in an electrical car. So far I have not been hindered in my endeavours by any big oil conspiracy...
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:13   #26
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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It boils down to taxes. If you burn water, where do you pay fuel taxes to?
You can't burn water for starters, so the government doesn't need to tax it.
If some other fuel comes along the government will tax it. Where I live you pay more tax when you buy LG to put in your car then when you buy LPG to cook on.

So that line of arguing is not very convincing. Anyway, if the state was really so worried about losing it's income from fuel taxes why is it forcing car manufacturers to lower mileage?
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:15   #27
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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Laws of physics. An adage passed from lips of the assimilated to the ears of the sheepel.
...
Accepting the laws of physics is accepting less than can be shown to be valid, if one looks around to question answers from the past.
You know, ever time you go sailing you engage in an experiment that proves that the laws of physics as described in the textbooks are valid...

It's not a matter of "accepting", it's a matter of observing a working universe and seeing that it works...
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Old 05-10-2012, 04:32   #28
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

Let's see....

1. Aircraft carries have nuclear reactors and thus generally more electricity than they need.
2. Money is no object. It wouldn't matter if this cost 20x what conventional JP costs, if it's all you can get at the moment.
3. Wars happen in spite environmental impact statements suggesting they are bad.

This is an interesting technology thread starter, but has nothing to do with energy policy. Oh, and...

4. I gather some of the posters slept through all of the science and math classes, while taking chemistry in a pill. Not much point in lecturing where schools have failed.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:24   #29
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

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Wrong? In what way? My short summation is historically accurate...
No, your summation was NOT "historically accurate." You said that youtube videos show that HHO works, and one police department is "running partially on water for fuel." When someone pointed that water is not a fuel, you responded that that is what they told Edison.

Again, wrong, no one told Edison that his ideas violated the laws of physics.

You can choose to ignore the well-tested and well-proven laws of physics if you wish. You can convince yourself that those who prefer science to wishful thinking are being short-sighted. Fine with me. It won't change the realities of the world in which we live.
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Old 05-10-2012, 06:33   #30
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Re: US Navy turning seawater into Jet Fuel

Wow. Once again the old cabal that oil companies are buying up miraculous new technologies so that they can keep selling oil.

Umm... If they had a way to use water as fuel, they could make billions upon billions upon billions from it. They would make so much more money than they can ever hope to make from selling oil that it is absolutely ridiculous. So what you're saying is that they DON'T want to become rich beyond the dreams of avarice. They DON'T want to make more money than they ever could any other way. What they want is to make LESS money, so long as they can keep making that money by selling oil.

Yeah. Sure. That makes a whole lot of sense.
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