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Old 08-04-2009, 06:17   #1
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US flaged cargo ship siezed by pirates!

A US flaged cargo ship has been seized by Samali pirates. Now we will see how much backbone Prsident Obama has.

Somali pirates seize ship and US crew off Horn of Africa | World news | guardian.co.uk
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:18   #2
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Not sure what you mean - there have been a number of ships/boats, incuding ones registered in other NATO nations, seized by Somali pirates in the past. In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised if Somali pirates had not previously seized/attacked vessels owned by US interests/citizens. Are you suggesting that he should perceive this as an act of war against the USA by Somalia?

If so, what was President Bush's response in the past - bearing in mind that an attack on one NATO nation is an attack on all? And please, don't suggest that NATO is a joke - our NATO obligation is why the Canadian Armed forces went into and have remained in Afghanistan post 9/11. It is why we recently buried our 104th casualty in that war. Maybe I missed something, but what did Bush do to prove his 'backbone' when British and French ships were attacked?

There is no denying that this is a serious problem, but there is still international law to be respected. And while an immediate, full scale invasion of Somalia might result in some satisfaction, it would do so at a significant cost to the US image abroad as a land of laws.

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Old 08-04-2009, 08:01   #3
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As part of a network news report on this cargo ship this morning, they sited 15 ships taken off of Somalia in March alone, and that there are currently 150 ships and crews being held there.

At what point does the civilized world say "enough!"

Why is it always just the U.S. that either sees the need for action, or is called upon for some reaction? Where is the rest of the world on this?

DGC
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:06   #4
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The pres. already showed his backbone is bent when he bowed to the Saudi king... Chances are the company that owned the ship will pay the ransom and the crew and cargo will be unharmed. Somali pirates actually have a reputation for treating their captives fairly well. There have even been stories of them ordering catering services from the mainland. They also have a reputation for returning the crew and cargo when ransoms are paid, ensuring their continued success. So as long as we negotiate with them and pay their ransoms, they'll treat their captives well, return whatever they took, and also be increasingly difficult to eliminate as we cultivate their growth.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:07   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidGC View Post
As part of a network news report on this cargo ship this morning, they sited 15 ships taken off of Somalia in March alone, and that there are currently 150 ships and crews being held there.

At what point does the civilized world say "enough!"

Why is it always just the U.S. that either sees the need for action, or is called upon for some reaction? Where is the rest of the world on this?

DGC
There are currently Danish, German and French naval ships patrolling the waters off the Somali coast, and one Swedish corvette in transit. Obvioisly, it's not enough...
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:14   #6
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Don't expect much, or anything--unless, of course, there is enough public outrage, at which point o'l WindSock will bow to public opinion and run to the U.N.--that bastion of integrety and defender of freedom--to lodge a "strong complaint".

I remind you that this "President" is the one that has thus far sent $900 million to Hamas--which has vowed to eradicate Israel, with the help if Iran; declined President Sarkozy's invitation to visit the gravesite for the American war dead at Normandy where a service followed by a reception in his "honour" had been planned because "it might offend the Germans" (forgetting of course that today's German's are not the Nazi's of WWII); beamed when presented with a copy of the Qur'an with Muhammed's, and his, middle name, Hussein, enscribed in gold-leaf (tho' his political operative's were enraged when his middle name was used during the elections as it revealed his Muslim heritage) while in Turkey; declared that he would file a "strong protest" with the UN when North Korea launched a 3-stage ballistic missle over Japan ("...yes, yes we know all about that..is there anything else?") and, humbled himself--and the United States--with a full bow from the waist to the King of Saudi Arabia yesterday, a move that even one Saudi news commentator described as "...a violation of protocol and not worthy of the office he holds."

And you think this "President" is going to take any action against his "little [Somali] brothers" (his description) when a US Ship is attacked and 21 US citzens taken hostage in international waters? We shall see...
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:32   #7
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It reminds me of the cocaine cowboys down here. When they first started they were almost urban heroes. The money was great. Then the crazies got involved and starting shooting the rivals and innocents at shopping malls and the money got better. Finally when the government decided to get really involved it was too late and we are still supposedly fighting that war. These things need to be nipped in the bud when they first raise their ugly heads. You can talk it to death with all the colorful brilliant ideas you want. But there remains the fact that there is only one way to deal with this sort of violence.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:47   #8
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There are currently Danish, German and French naval ships patrolling the waters off the Somali coast, and one Swedish corvette in transit. Obvioisly, it's not enough...
And how is that working out so far?

What is happening in Somalia is a perfect example of how appeasement and negotiation do NOT work with terrorists. As long as these folks are getting what they want (ransom money), their behavior will continue and increase, and others will join them.

When dealing with thugs, only strength is respected. What is required is a NATO ultimatum to Somalia: stop this, or we will. Then, a coordinated effort to militarily end this nonsense.

Sink four or five of these vessels and imprison the pirates, then continue to clean out the rat's nest until the rats are gone.

The current U.S. president, like most left-leaning politicians in the U.S., is not comfortable with the military and has no true, historic idea of their necessity and justifiable use. His behavior so far shows that he is willing to go so far as to bow to a foreign head of state and denigrate his own country in public speeches made to foreign audiences on foreign soil. We surely went from one extreme to the other here.

With the rest of of the western world unwilling to take the lead, I don't see this situation changing any time soon.

This will only lead to more threads about having guns onboard. Oh, goody!

DGC
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:48   #9
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Brad,

(1) Be surprised, this is the first US flaged ship to be seized of Somalia in modern times!
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:54   #10
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Interesting factoid, mobetah.
This makes Obama's response a little more important.
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:55   #11
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The pres. already showed his backbone is bent when he bowed to the Saudi king... Chances are the company that owned the ship will pay the ransom and the crew and cargo will be unharmed. Somali pirates actually have a reputation for treating their captives fairly well. There have even been stories of them ordering catering services from the mainland. They also have a reputation for returning the crew and cargo when ransoms are paid, ensuring their continued success. So as long as we negotiate with them and pay their ransoms, they'll treat their captives well, return whatever they took, and also be increasingly difficult to eliminate as we cultivate their growth.
... but not one penny for tribute ...?
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Old 08-04-2009, 08:57   #12
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A US flaged cargo ship has been seized by Samali pirates. Now we will see how much backbone Prsident Obama has.

Somali pirates seize ship and US crew off Horn of Africa | World news | guardian.co.uk
While I don't necessarily think this is decisive (or necessarily a "test" of Obama -- there are bigger fish right now, frankly), but I do think the fact that the crew is American changes the dynamics somewhat. Typically, crews are from poor, less-developed countries such as the Philippines or Bangladesh. White faces will get more than passing attention on the TV.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:13   #13
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Sorry about the previous post, I hit the wrong key!

Brad,

(1) Be surprised, this is the first US flaged ship to be seized of Somalia in modern times. Now is the time for the US to nip this in the bud ..... IMHO!

(2) The ship was seized 300 miles off the Somalia coast (in internatioal waters)! Are you suggesting that the US does not have the right to protect this or any other US flaged ship without the permission of NATO or the UN?

(3) Yes, I think NATO is a joke, as well as the UN which you did not mention.

(4) While the Somalia pirates are not members of the Somalia government (at least as far as I know), they are condoned by the Somalia government and looked at as heroes by the Somalia people. BBC NEWS | Africa | Somali pirates living the high life The Somalia government should be held responsable for reigning in these pirates.

(5) No one has suggested that the US launch a full scale invasion however, a few cruise missles or cookie cutters might get their attention.

(6) You said, "What did Bush do to prove his backbone when US and French ships were attacked?" You are kidding, right?

(7) "International law must be respected" huh ????????????
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:22   #14
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Is it me, or is this post too political for this forum? The very question posed was politically slanted (show his backbone?) and half the responses have been as well, the worst being "And you think this "President" is going to take any action" He is the President, no need for the quotes.

If you can't talk about the issue without the BS, don't respond.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:39   #15
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We need to write them a nasty letter. You know like the one we sent North Korea.
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