Ukraine Crisis

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by Dale Hedtke

If the Ruskies are up to anything, I'm sure the CIA knows all about it. Sure.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Do You may be remember some other imressive and brillant feats of the same kind in history..?.. Do You..?.. May be..?..

Sudetenland circa 1938 ..Hitler said that he had to protect the German speaking people from those commies and untermichen(sub-human slavs)..For someone that hates facist nazis its strange that he (Putin ) takes a page from ther "playbook" ,this caused world war then, what will it cause now...?

[chala]

Originally Posted by dohenyboy

Their viewpoint is that the Russians stole their country from them. To say they hate the Russians is putting it mildly.

You mean a sort of Palestine.

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Do You may be remember some other imressive and brillant feats of the same kind in history..?.. Do You..?.. May be..?..

May 1968 events in France - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What wiki forget to mention is that the capital run out of food.

Wonder how long that thread will last before it is closed.

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

Sudetenland circa 1938 ..Hitler said that he had to protect the German speaking people from those commies and untermichen(sub-human slavs)..For someone that hates facist nazis its strange that he (Putin ) takes a page from ther "playbook" ,this caused world war then, what will it cause now...?

Austria was earlier in 1938.

But...

Eastern part of Poland invaded in 1939 by Russia.

Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania taken 1939/1940 by Russia.

Moldova cut out by Russians from Romania in 1940.

Georgia not long ago.

They have they own playbook for this, may be longer than German one...

[DoubleWhisky]

Originally Posted by chala

Wonder how long that thread will last before it is closed.

Surely not in a long time.

May be we can read more about Russian "cruisers" before... Hopefully

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Surely not in a long time.

May be we can read more about Russian "cruisers" before... Hopefully

My understanding is that the whole fleet was to be out of Crimea in 2017(under Tomashenko)altough they have a lease until 2040 something(i think this is near correct).. If Russia is going to lose its only warm sea port, what did we think would happen? The writing has long been on the wall, and now it begins ..Europe and Russia...The pacific will be USA and China...There will be no losers as Japan and Germany are "power houses" after losing the second one, what will be Russias aftermath after the third one is over?(considering they were "winners"after the second one!) Amazing time we live and die in ..

[tropicalescape]

Maybe the young Russian fella down in Cambodia that is a member of CF is building that marina for Russia so that they will have another warm seaport..!

[chala]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Georgia not long ago.

And more recently the french reinstating a president in Africa.

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

They have they own playbook for this, may be longer than German one..

They all have theirs own playbooks for that. After all Yalta is in Crimea.
Yalta Conference - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mrm]

Drawing parallels to Hitler actions in 1938 is perfectly adequate to what is happening now, it is also worth remembering, what resulted from the 'appeasement' policy employed by other nations then. However, there is another much more recent historical point worth mentioning.

After Soviet Union broke down, Ukraine was left with nuclear weapons in its possession. When asked, Ukraine gave up all nuclear weapons in exchange for an international treaty guaranteeing its sovereignty and territorial integrity. A treaty to this effect was signed in December, 1994, in Budapest.

The countries who signed that treaty were:

• Russia (!)
• United States
• Great Britain

Just for your information, and to give a better context to the discussion.

[chala]

Originally Posted by mrm

is perfectly adequate

Not really. What we have is an “elected” president that as been ousted by some protesters in Kiew. What we need is the vote of all Ukrainians to decide of theirs future.

[mrm]

Originally Posted by chala

Not really. What we have is an “elected” president that as been ousted by some protesters in Kiew. What we need is the vote of all Ukrainians to decide of theirs future.

And Russian troops invading Ukraine are there to help Ukrainians vote on their future, right?

No matter how you spin it, there is no way to make it seem legit, and given the 1994 Budapest Treaty, makes it a mission impossible.

[chala]

Originally Posted by mrm

And Russian troops invading Ukraine are there to help Ukrainians vote on their future, right? :

No more than the Kiew protesters will help Ukrainians vote on their future. The UN should have done the job that the Russian are doing but the UN as seen in the Middle East is such a weak apparatus so easily ignored and manipulated by any one that it can not be entrusted.

By the way adolf started as a protester.

[senormechanico]

Before this thread is closed, I've got to ask,

If there is a moving body of water in their peninsula, what is it called?

Is it,

...

...

...

...

Crimea River ?

[Captain Ludd]

Originally Posted by DoubleWhisky

Really nothing so funny about this...

Neither do I.

Tragic is a word that springs to mind.

[mrm]

Ah, I see, so first you claim Ukrainians must decide:

Originally Posted by chala

What we need is the vote of all Ukrainians to decide of theirs future.

And then you claim external forces must make that decision for them:

Originally Posted by chala

The UN should have done the job that the Russian are doing

This is pretty inconsistent, mate.
Told ya, it is difficult to spin.

Originally Posted by chala

..but the UN as seen in the Middle East is such a weak apparatus so easily ignored and manipulated by any one that it can not be entrusted.

... as opposed to Russia, who can be trusted absolutely, right? Given their attitude to Ukrainian territorial integrity Treaty they (Russia) signed, I must say your point of view is very novel indeed.

Anyway, I wrote here to bring attention to a specific international treaty Russia signed and subsequently breached and not to squabble over nazi references, so I bow out of this discussion. Have a great cruise.