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Old 03-07-2016, 01:33   #46
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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There will also be a social backlash. Maybe in England they think it is OK to show someone a finger and then pretend everything is OK and we can still friends.

If I were to judge from the reaction of my local (Spanish mostly) friends, this is not the case. A common reaction is "they said they do not like us, may they go where they belong". No anger, just a deep disappointment in a member of the family who thinks themselves better that others only because the others are apparently less smart or affluent.

Very sad.

Life is not just economy and politics. These can be fixed over time. Falling out of love with someone may never cure.

b.
Funny, from this side of the world I never read it that the Brits didn't like the Europeans, just very wary of how the unelected beaurocrats were going to bully them next.
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Old 03-07-2016, 06:29   #47
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

Alan, all I could see in the banner was "I Puk, I Puk".


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Old 03-07-2016, 11:09   #48
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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Funny, from this side of the world I never read it that the Brits didn't like the Europeans, just very wary of how the unelected beaurocrats were going to bully them next.
This is my reading of the situation also with a significant portion of the written media of the opinion that the One Europe scheme is in serious trouble with the rise in extremist parties of both the left and right as another symptom of the problem.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:36   #49
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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This is my reading of the situation also with a significant portion of the written media of the opinion that the One Europe scheme is in serious trouble with the rise in extremist parties of both the left and right as another symptom of the problem.
What they don't seem to grasp is that the extremist parties have risen precisely because of what the One Europers have been doing.
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Old 03-07-2016, 11:58   #50
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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Funny, from this side of the world I never read it that the Brits didn't like the Europeans, just very wary of how the un-elected beaurocrats were going to bully them next.
I recon you are pretty much spot on. A mixture of butter mountains and wine lakes which have existed since I was a child just beggar belief. Add being ruled by un-elected Eurocrats that wrote themselves into an awful lot of additional power with the Lisbon Treaty mean old folk in the UK have had enough.

Europe's 'butter mountains' making a comeback, says farms Minister George Eustice | Plymouth Herald

The remain campaign seems to be made up of the under 30 group who seem content for us to give away our liberty.

Shame the details of the European Army haven't been published, add a little bit of conscription (possible) and they would quickly change their minds. Thank god we kept the pound.

Downside is I might have to take my passport when I go on holiday or sailing now.
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Old 03-07-2016, 12:45   #51
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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This is my reading of the situation also with a significant portion of the written media of the opinion that the One Europe scheme is in serious trouble with the rise in extremist parties of both the left and right as another symptom of the problem.
Raymond,

If left and right wing politics are a symptom of THE PROBLEM then PLS expand on what the problem is.

I thought left and right wing politics ARE the problem. And weakening of the EU is the effect. Apparently you see it the other way round (?)

I think One Europe as you named it is not likely to be the problem. I think all EU cruisers benefit from One Europe scheme, not lose on it.

You got me puzzled with your cause vs. effect shift. Much as from your place it may look like my view is the one that has it all upside down.

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Old 03-07-2016, 13:34   #52
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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There will also be a social backlash. Maybe in England they think it is OK to show someone a finger and then pretend everything is OK and we can still friends.

If I were to judge from the reaction of my local (Spanish mostly) friends, this is not the case. A common reaction is "they said they do not like us, may they go where they belong". No anger, just a deep disappointment in a member of the family who thinks themselves better that others only because the others are apparently less smart or affluent.

Very sad.

Life is not just economy and politics. These can be fixed over time. Falling out of love with someone may never cure.

b.
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Funny, from this side of the world I never read it that the Brits didn't like the Europeans, just very wary of how the unelected beaurocrats were going to bully them next.
I wonder why?

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I'd wondered, a bit, whether the referendum would stick - or if they'd drag their feet until they could push through a second referendum to reverse.

Then this hit the news:

EU to launch kettle and toaster crackdown after Brexit vote



Somehow, I can't see the Brits being willing to give up their toasters and kettles.
So basically, just like in the U.S., if you don't shut and suckup the nonsense you are labeled "racist"
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Old 03-07-2016, 14:37   #53
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

[QUOTE=barnakiel;2158503I thought left and right wing politics ARE the problem. And weakening of the EU is the effect.[/QUOTE]
Nope.

The core of the problem is the transnational progressives' conceit that the problem is politics, and that their positions aren't political.

They see any opposition to their chosen beliefs as an attack on their entire belief system. They see history as a linear progression towards their preferred outcomes, and themselves as the stewards of progress, working to make that inevitable outcome happen.

How Brexit Shattered Progressives Dearest Illusions

The worst part of all of this is that the tranzis have simply been refusing to listen to the people who've been being hurt by the European project. They label them as racists and xenophobes, and simply refuse to pay any attention to the problems that the European project has been causing, or the very real threats that it is bringing.

And that is the real problem.
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Old 03-07-2016, 14:52   #54
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

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There will also be a social backlash. Maybe in England they think it is OK to show someone a finger and then pretend everything is OK and we can still friends.

If I were to judge from the reaction of my local (Spanish mostly) friends, this is not the case. A common reaction is "they said they do not like us, may they go where they belong". No anger, just a deep disappointment in a member of the family who thinks themselves better that others only because the others are apparently less smart or affluent.

Very sad.

Life is not just economy and politics. These can be fixed over time. Falling out of love with someone may never cure.

b.
While I agree for a short period, there will be grumpy people, maybe the occasional official will be extra officious with UK boats.

But the implication you can't be friends unless you join the same club sounds more like a problem with the people in the club than the guy with enough backbone to admit, your probably not that good of a friend if you mandate joining the club or they won't be friends anymore (I'm reminded of a college roommate who joined a frat but then ran low on cash. Suddenly all his "best buds" wanted nothing to do with him.)

The EU is first and foremost a business relationship. While friendship among business associates is great, if you let the friendship drive your business choices, it's a great way to go bankrupt. That may or may not be the case with the brexit but friendship isn't a good reason to stay.
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Old 03-07-2016, 16:25   #55
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

Some mentioned in this thread the push by some in banking to have cashless society's. Controlling money and tracing its origen and destination has been an obsession of Governments for a very long time. Going cashless is the perfect way for Government's and their agencies to track the movement of money from source to destination.

This tracking can have some very bad consequences. Take South Africa during the apartheid era for instance. The South African Government put restrictions on the outflow of money. Foreign cash transfers were almost banned. This restriction on money transfers internationally was not just economic. It was a totalitarian way to restrict the flight of citizens from the country. Holding their money captive in effect held the citizens themselves captive.

Attempts to restrict the flow of money in and out of countries has been a long tool of despots. South Africans being the inventive smart people they were came up with ingenious solutions. It was interesting to see how many became rare stamp enthusiasts. Rare coin dealers in Joe burg flourished and the setting of half a million dollar single diamonds in a ring became not an ostentatious flaunting of wealth but an easy way of crossing borders with the value of your recently sold home.

I have every confidence in the ability of smart people to find ways of getting from under the boot of despotic governments and trans national totalitarians.

Sailors have the ultimate freedom. Brexit hasn't changed that. If it brings about the collapse of the EU it will only free up the ability of all non EU sailors to explore and stay in Europe as the heart desires. Yes there are loosers. Those in the former EU will have to show passports at each new foreign port. A small price to pay for us all others to be able to spend years in Europe travelling from one country to the next.
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Old 03-07-2016, 18:35   #56
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Re: UK, EU and repercussions on cruising

I have read and I believe I understand the arguments posted in response to my musings. I believe these ways of seeing the whole mess is correct from the point of where each poster is situated.

I can only tell you that the case with at least one East EUropean country I know well is that the extreme right took over not as a result of EU policies but as a result of what the voting majority of this particular nation actually prefers, nourishes and cherishes: deep respect for being white, religious and preferably male.

Now, we are living in a Western EUropean country where the extreme "left" is saying they do not like the EU because they think everyone in the family should live on the same level regardless of how hard or effectively they work. Hmmm. No wonder the smart and rich kid wants to move out.

Clearly, everybody is now pulling their way, trying to grill their own political sausage on the EU fireplace.

In other words, there is no one single reason, one single failure point of the EU scheme.

And yet the EU will refuse to use brexit as a pause to look in the mirror and ask ourselves: "what are we doing wrong and can this be done better". No such attempt, not even mentioning it. They (=the EU govt) pretend (or even worse, believe) everything is fine with the EU and them English are just plainly out of their minds. Which is not the case. Them English are just refusing to sail upwind.

This is all very sad. Very pessimistic. We cannot blame the English for willing to part with a club where they do not feel happy. But we can blame the EU for not trying to learn the lesson.

In my case, I am just going to keep our boat papers in order and up to date and our moderate budget well diversified and non-EURoistic. Can't see what else we could do.

Just sail it and hope the ultimate and undoubtedly problematic collapse will see us somewhere in the SoPac.

Cheers,
b.
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