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Old 20-12-2013, 17:38   #91
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

[QUOTE=smj;1419803]
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Originally Posted by ontherocks83 View Post

Sorry, really can't agree with this. So because someone gets into a profession to make money it makes them good at what they do? Absolutely not. I would much rather have a doctor that got into the medical field because it's what he's always wanted to do, his life's dream. They tend to take medicine beyond a way to make a living and actually use their degree to help people. This to me is a major problem with a capitalistic form of health care.
Maybe not well said by me. Let me simplify. I would rather see a doctor who's passion was medicine rather than see a doctor who's passion was money and who's passion was taking all he could from me. Who would make a better doctor?
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:39   #92
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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This to me is a major problem with a capitalistic form of health care.
The only problem is that Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty, fed more hungry children and improved the living conditions of more people than any other economic model in history. Sure there are varring degrees of Capitalism, but without it you are only spending other people's money. As Prime Minister Thatcher pointed out, the fun ends when other people's money one day runs out.


What I find interesting about this type of thread is how quickly they ALWAYS degrade into attacks, name calling, and hysterics on each side of the argument. I could write the script like a cheap tella novella with all the sterotype cliches and zingers. Fun to watch, but in the end doesn't move the argument or debate "forward" as I remember a politician promising as he unconstitutionally postpones aspects of the law that are not playing well with the public.

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You are not an island , you do not live on the planet on your own, it's a community, that community creates the situation that " allows" you to generate and more importantly keep, wealth. Be thankful and pay your taxes. The alternatives are all around the world for you to see.

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Ya....and I would add "You did not build that"....just for the fun of saying it...and watching the fireworks....
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:44   #93
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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post

The only problem is that Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty, fed more hungry children and improved the living conditions of more people than any other economic model in history. Sure there are varring degrees of Capitalism, but without it you are only spending other people's money. As Prime Minister Thatcher pointed out, the fun ends when other people's money one day runs out.

What I find interesting about this type of thread is how quickly they ALWAYS degrade into attacks, name calling, and hysterics on each side of the argument. I could write the script like a cheap tella novella with all the sterotype cliches and zingers. Fun to watch, but in the end doesn't move the argument or debate "forward" as I remember a politician promising as he unconstitutionally postpones aspects of the law that are not playing well with the public.
Yes but many things are not amenable to Capitalism , and in fact even in capitalist systems , we have extraordinary regulatory and oversight systems. So in reality we have a very constrained form of capitalism.

Even within capitalism , we realise there are many sub-systems not amenable to capitalism ,social welfare supports, police , military , certain basic education , all I would add to that is healthcare. What's the issue. Why argue healthcare over say making all schooling depend on having money to send you kids to school

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Old 20-12-2013, 17:48   #94
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Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY View Post

The only problem is that Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty, fed more hungry children and improved the living conditions of more people than any other economic model in history. Sure there are varring degrees of Capitalism, but without it you are only spending other people's money. As Prime Minister Thatcher pointed out, the fun ends when other people's money one day runs out.

What I find interesting about this type of thread is how quickly they ALWAYS degrade into attacks, name calling, and hysterics on each side of the argument. I could write the script like a cheap tella novella with all the sterotype cliches and zingers. Fun to watch, but in the end doesn't move the argument or debate "forward" as I remember a politician promising as he unconstitutionally postpones aspects of the law that are not playing well with the public.

Ya....and I would add "You did not build that"....just for the fun of saying it...and watching the fireworks....
A yes thatcher , one of the most disliked politicians ever , got re-elected primarily because Labour hadn't actually anyone with a brain. Once they found one she got turfed out sharpish.

As to spending other people's money, see fiat currencies, we actually just keep making/printing it , since its not actually real.

I don't see any name calling or hysterics , quite a calm reasonable debate actually

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Old 20-12-2013, 17:48   #95
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The only problem is that Capitalism has raised more people out of poverty, fed more hungry children and improved the living conditions of more people than any other economic model in history. Sure there are varring degrees of Capitalism, but without it you are only spending other people's money. As Prime Minister Thatcher pointed out, the fun ends when other people's money one day runs out. What I find interesting about this type of thread is how quickly they ALWAYS degrade into attacks, name calling, and hysterics on each side of the argument. I could write the script like a cheap tella novella with all the sterotype cliches and zingers. Fun to watch, but in the end doesn't move the argument or debate "forward" as I remember a politician promising as he unconstitutionally postpones aspects of the law that are not playing well with the public. Ya....and I would add "You did not build that"....just for the fun of saying it...and watching the fireworks....
And that's why America has the most expensive and best healthcare system in the world? Oops sorry, most expensive by far, best? Not by a long shot. Money doesn't buy caring or even good doctors, it buys doctors that want to make money.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:50   #96
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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A free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are not controlled by a government or other authority

Thus the government requiring you to purchase something or quote
"Be punished" is the opposite of a free market
Like auto insurance, right?
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:50   #97
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

I am not scared of my government and feel I can afford to pay more to foster a system that helps people in need. For the vast majority, poverty is not a life-choice.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:52   #98
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I am not scared of my government and feel I can afford to pay more to foster a system that helps people in need. For the vast majority, poverty is not a life-choice.
Well said.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:52   #99
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Like auto insurance, right?
I can choose not to drive, it's against the law for me to choose not to live...
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:54   #100
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Yes but many things are not amenable to Capitalism , and in fact even in capitalist systems , we have extraordinary regulatory and oversight systems. So in reality we have a very constrained form of capitalism.

Even within capitalism , we realise there are many sub-systems not amenable to capitalism ,social welfare supports, police , military , certain basic education , all I would add to that is healthcare. What's the issue. Why argue healthcare over say making all schooling depend on having money to send you kids to school

Dave
There are no capitalist societies, only corporatism.
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Old 20-12-2013, 17:55   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirBoyzT
A free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are not controlled by a government or other authority

Thus the government requiring you to purchase something or quote
"Be punished" is the opposite of a free market
Actually nobody wants a " free market economy " , everyone wants to manipulate the system. Especially those that gain power through using the " free market " They are usually the first to slap controls on it , usually for their betterment.

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Old 20-12-2013, 17:56   #102
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There are no capitalist societies, only corporatism.
Maybe , but the revolutions coming.

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Old 20-12-2013, 18:01   #103
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Actually nobody wants a " free market economy " , everyone wants to manipulate the system. Especially those that gain power through using the " free market " They are usually the first to slap controls on it , usually for their betterment.

Dave
You are awesome! Well put

On a sailing note since this is a sailing website forum, maybe we can start subsidizing sails...I need a new set. I'll be stealing $10 from each forum member and if I end up with more money than the sails cost I'll give you your money back and call it a refund, an interest free refund.
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Old 20-12-2013, 18:04   #104
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

First of all, mea culpa on Snowden. He is indeed a libertarian. Anyhoo, it's not the GOP who are the most in arms about NSA overreach, it's stronger within Democrats, even the Obama-supporters.

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Oh and I'm glad the government "allows" me to make money. They shouldn't have any say so in private affairs.
The government provided the stable, peaceful country and robust economic system (which includes healthy and protected workers) in which you were able to make money off of some abstract financial instruments.

Absent a government, there wouldn't be money. And wealth, such as it was, would flow to the guy with the biggest club... until someone else gets a bigger club. You really want that?
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Old 20-12-2013, 18:05   #105
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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I am not scared of my government and feel I can afford to pay more to foster a system that helps people in need. For the vast majority, poverty is not a life-choice.
Don't have the data in front of me...but can you tell me how the "War on Poverty" has turned out?
Has it decreased the amount of people in Poverty? Are we winning?
Or it is like the "War on Terror"?

I would argue that both the War on Povery and the War on Terror have been failures because we have more povery NOW and more Terror NOW even after Trillions and Trillions and Trillions....Hmmmm....but then again...maybe that's the point? Na...now that is just CraZy talk Rich
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