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Old 20-12-2013, 14:48   #46
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Originally Posted by AirBoyzT View Post
No hospital in the US will let someone die because they can't afford healthcare.
Emergency rooms will only stabilize an acute condition. By design, they are only meant as... EMERGENCY treatment, The ER's job is done when the patient isn't in imminent danger or distress... at which time they are supposed to get conventional treatment for the underlying condition or illness. That is... if they are insured, or can afford it, or can find a hospital, church or other charity to foot the bill.

A few weeks ago I put up a link from a Texas med student's recounting of the welfare patients he had... and how many of them ended up dying from treatable illnesses. There are many such stories. It's pretty depressing.

by the way, the Canadian government has been treating some of our veterans pretty shabbily, too. In particular, the treatment of PTSD has been inadequate and there was a recent spike in vet suicides. All vets deserve better treatment than this.
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Old 20-12-2013, 14:57   #47
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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The good news is, something is finally being done about this. Over the next 5-10 years the US will be moving in a direction with far more price transparency, so that we actually will start to have a market based system. This will lower health care costs. Not sure we will get as low as the rest of the world, but for sure they will drop.

The OPs situation is exactly why. The same service costs 10x one place as next door. This would never happen in a market based system. Luckily the people who pay for all this (Large employers) are finally sick of it and changing the game. In 5 years, most of us will actually know what our healthcare costs and make decisions accordingly.

The bad news is they will make this all possible by pushing everyone onto High-Deductible plans
It's not free market if we are forced to buy something lol.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:09   #48
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

If the free market cannot function in the US system, you will eventually bankrupt the system, look at the UK history, look at New Zealand history, Canada is running very close to he line as 90% of health care is union employees who just keep demanding more and more out of the system , people who are lonely also use the system as a crutch for someone to talk to and invent illness which does not exist for them, these stresses are becoming extreme.
We have now "walk in clinics" where first come first serve is the rule, all staff are fully qualified and no longer the need to wait for Dr's appt, this was fought tooth and nails by the unions and the left wing parties under the quise of it being "for profit" health care, it was not that as the fees paid to the practitioners were pd by the Gov't same as family Dr.
The big issue is going to be cost control, the continuous release of new expensive drugs, new very expensive diagnostic equipment and the escalating cost of salaries and fat benefits (see auto industry history in Detroit)

Lets hope that the market place which are the consumers step in and demand that the system be for them the consumer and payor and not for the providers.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:11   #49
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Thanks, maybe I worded it wrong but I hear like in canada you can see a private dr and get right in. Under the government program you could wait weeks or more. I winder if thats where this country is headed.
My girlfriend has canadian health insurance "coverage". Let's get one thing straight right away...the insurance ain't free. She has been in pain with her hip and hobbling around with a cane since June 2013. We anxiously await our FIRST appointment with a specialist on Jan. 22, 2013.

Lucky you with US health coverage!
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:19   #50
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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It's not free market if we are forced to buy something lol.
False. But it is certainly not free market without price transparency.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:21   #51
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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If the free market cannot function in the US system, you will eventually bankrupt the system, look at the UK history, look at New Zealand history, Canada is running very close to he line
Not sure the argument here. US spends 2x what any of these other countries do on health care. I do not think any of these (US or the others) have a market based system. Maybe you are just saying we need to switch to one to lower costs?
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:40   #52
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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False. But it is certainly not free market without price transparency.
A free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are not controlled by a government or other authority

Thus the government requiring you to purchase something or quote
"Be punished" is the opposite of a free market
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:42   #53
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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My girlfriend has canadian health insurance "coverage". Let's get one thing straight right away...the insurance ain't free. She has been in pain with her hip and hobbling around with a cane since June 2013. We anxiously await our FIRST appointment with a specialist on Jan. 22, 2013.
Between the both of them, my parents got two knees and a hip. In your part of Ontario. I also know that the busiest joint replacement doctor at UH retired a little more than a year ago.

Of course we don't know how your primary care physician has been monitoring your gf's hip situation, or when they asked for a specialist...

Has your gf asked around for an earlier appointment with a different specialist - Strathroy, Windsor, Woodstock, Kitchener/Cambridge, Toronto? The wait in Southwestern Ont for hip replacement is running about half a year. In Toronto there are some places doing them in about 100 days.

You can of course wave your checkbook about and go anywhere for faster service. I hear Monaco is nice this time of year.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:44   #54
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

No one's forced to buy insurance because of ACA. If you decide not to, you just have to pay a $95 tax to help other Americans.

For the last 10 years you've been taxed 2.9% of your income to pay the Medicare bills of Americans over 65. And starting this year there's a 3.8% tax on investment income for the same thing. How are these all so different?

For Americans who want to go cruising before they are 65, ACA insurance is really good news. Much better coverage than limited catastrophic plans for not much more cost.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:44   #55
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Yes I Had to get treatment in Jamaica as well. I survived only slightly better than the goat they sacrificed..
Ha, Jamiaca would certainly not be my choice (for anything).
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:52   #56
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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Originally Posted by AirBoyzT View Post
A free market is a market economy in which the forces of supply and demand are not controlled by a government or other authority

Thus the government requiring you to purchase something or quote
"Be punished" is the opposite of a free market
No. You might not like it, but that does not mean it is not free market. With pricing transparency and no price controls, it is a free market. If the government dictated prices (a la Medicare) that would not be a free market. Look at food. Everyone buys food, does that mean there is no such thing as a free market in food?
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:52   #57
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Why is it that veterans get such shitty coverage while only the inmates at gitmo get first rate unviersal coverage??

I have my own health insurance and the price is doubling. I'm happy to pay it because even though I don't make a ton of money, I can still afford it and it's a slightly better plan now. Hopefully some of the difference actually finds its way to helping others and doesn;t just fall into the pockets of the insurance companies.
Then incarcerate yourself in Gitmo, suspension of rights and the genera convention for better healthcare , what's the problem

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Old 20-12-2013, 15:53   #58
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

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No one's forced to buy insurance because of ACA. If you decide not to, you just have to pay a $95 tax to help other Americans.

For the last 10 years you've been taxed 2.9% of your income to pay the Medicare bills of Americans over 65. And starting this year there's a 3.8% tax on investment income for the same thing. How are these all so different?

For Americans who want to go cruising before they are 65, ACA insurance is really good news. Much better coverage than limited catastrophic plans for not much more cost.
More than a $95 "tax" first off and it was declared a fine not a tax. The fine is upwards of $600. What if these same people said you had to buy a gun a year or pay a fine....liberals would be up in arms literally.

I'm 27 and can go cruising without ACA. Of course I took a risk and invested in some serious companies after getting injured in Iraq and now I get paid really good dividends. And I course those dividends are double taxes, but that's ok....apparently that's just my "fair share". Even though 48% of Americans don't pay taxes.

I just don't think governments should be involved in the personal lives of people....especially when they can't even do simple tasks.
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Old 20-12-2013, 15:56   #59
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Re: U.S. Healthcare Pirates

The medical market is a free market when it comes to the uninsured. In our area they did research of prices for colonoscopies for someone with out insurance. They ranged from $900 to $9,000, depending on the facility. Medical has become big business, like everything else, and is strictly profit motivated. In the OP's case, the bill for the MRI, even thought he had to pay due to not meeting his deductible, should be the same amount that they would pay, if he had covered his deductible. You also can negotiate with the facility over the bill. I was advised to do that, by a Doctor, when my the out of network bill from my wife's injuries came to over $40,000. I had good insurance, but usual and customary in NYC is way higher than where I live, and we were billed the higher amount. Every doctor but one would accept less. We cut it in half. Also, what you are billed, as the payer, is much more than medical facilities pay. My daughter does account reconciliation with a medical facility, and she says some times the insurance company will only pay 5% of the billed amount. It is all theater, just like what is the right price for a car. Under "Obamacare", the gov't isn't the insurance payer, you still use insurance companies, that hasn't changed. We have paid our own healthcare insurance for almost our whole working life, and it has never gone down, always up, or decrease in benefits. We carried it for the 9+ years we were on the boat in the Caribbean. I need to add, that we are very happy with Medicare, and our AARP supplimentals, and if Medicare is an indication of how single payer would work, I am all for it.

To the OP, I wish you a speedy recovery, but be patient, and do what the Dr and PT says to do. Your paying for their advice.
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Old 20-12-2013, 16:04   #60
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More than a $95 "tax" first off and it was declared a fine not a tax. The fine is upwards of $600. What if these same people said you had to buy a gun a year or pay a fine....liberals would be up in arms literally.

I'm 27 and can go cruising without ACA. Of course I took a risk and invested in some serious companies after getting injured in Iraq and now I get paid really good dividends. And I course those dividends are double taxes, but that's ok....apparently that's just my "fair share". Even though 48% of Americans don't pay taxes.

I just don't think governments should be involved in the personal lives of people....especially when they can't even do simple tasks.
The US is attempting to bring in universal private health insurance , there are similar models in some European countries. One of the tenants of that concept is that everyone has to take it out , ie the young in good health and the old not so good health. This is because the system cannot function if only the sick are in it.

That's why you " must " contribute. The system relies on the young subsidising the olds, until they too get old. The good thing is you know for a fact you'll get old.

Private companies have equally shown themselves to be utterly inept. Remember Lehmans ?

If you are paying taxes , it cause you have the income to reach the point where you pay them. It's irrelevant what people on no or low income do. Would anyone trade income with welfare recipients just to get free band aid.


Given the choice between Google being involved in my personal life and the Government , I' ll take the Gov, thanks

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