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Old 07-11-2008, 06:00   #1
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The Racing "Rockstar" vs The Old Salt

So who is the better sailor? It seems to me unless it is my imagination that the Racing "Rockstar" looks down at the weekend Cruiser. By the way, I got the term "Rockstar" from a Yacht Club in Annapolis on a trip there back in 2002.

Now this being said, of course Racing Sailors are more concerned about Sail Trim and tactics on the course and have some great stratagies about sailing and maximizing there speed. However, what about Navigation, Anchoring, seamenship, whipping, splicing, and oveall boat handling.

Personally my days of Racing are over. The days of yelling on boats is gone and I hope for ever. So the question is who is the better sailor, Dennis Conners or Captain Joshua Slocum.

Looking forward to your opinnion!
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Old 07-11-2008, 06:27   #2
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It seems, to me, that, as with “what’s the best boat” type queries, your question about the "better sailor" lacks a qualifying premise as to intended purpose.

Notwithstanding, your second paragraph seems to answer the question.
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:41   #3
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What Gord said!
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Old 07-11-2008, 08:44   #4
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Seconded. Both racers and cruisers are sailors, ergo both are 'the best'.
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Old 07-11-2008, 09:25   #5
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Then wouldn't THE BEST overall sailor be one who both races and cruises?
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:50   #6
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Sailboat Racing is …by definition…the ability to aggressively push your boat and crew to speeds just under breaking levels… so by extension from a commercial or cruiser’s perspective…..racing can also be defined as “bad seamanship”

In my past, delivering racing Maxis to their next destination in heavy weather, some of the racing crew on board were definitely a liability.

For me, Captain Slocum is a Sailor’s sailor, Conners is a drycleaner from San Diego who was fast with day-boats in protected waters.

The only “Rockstars” I know in the cruising fraternity are those who have an affinity to putting their craft upon their namesake.

Perhaps that is a clue to the different mindsets....
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Old 07-11-2008, 11:58   #7
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Best is a qualitative term. Best at what? "Best" has to be defined in quantitative terms before the question can be answered. Otherwise all we do is get into a heated discussion arguing about qualitative things which never really answers the question.

Until we do define best, racers are best at racing and cruisers are best at cruising.
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Old 07-11-2008, 12:53   #8
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Does the term "strap hanger" come to mind? There are guys that run boats and there are guys that sail on boats. Don't confuse the two. Just because you are crew on a racing boat doesn't mean you really know much about sailing. The ability to spin a winch does not imply you have the faintest clue about sailing or managing a boat.

All that said, racing on a boat can teach allot about sailing if you want to learn the lessons. I highly recomend those wanting to learn how to sail RACE.



Quote:
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Sailboat Racing is …by definition…the ability to aggressively push your boat and crew to speeds just under breaking levels… so by extension from a commercial or cruiser’s perspective…..racing can also be defined as “bad seamanship”

In my past, delivering racing Maxis to their next destination in heavy weather, some of the racing crew on board were definitely a liability.

For me, Captain Slocum is a Sailor’s sailor, Conners is a drycleaner from San Diego who was fast with day-boats in protected waters.

The only “Rockstars” I know in the cruising fraternity are those who have an affinity to putting their craft upon their namesake.

Perhaps that is a clue to the different mindsets....
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Old 07-11-2008, 15:42   #9
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Admit it now. We all know that when sailing around in cruising mode and coming up on someone else we take joy in "cleaning their clock". So the best ""best" sailor is the fast cruiser because they ROCK and do it all!
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Old 07-11-2008, 15:47   #10
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'nuther way to look at it

Perhaps the Bumfuzzle crew could teach us all a little something about what it means to be another kind of "best sailor". Not many sailors pull off what Pat and Ali did on such thin sailing resumes. A successful circumnavigation without serious mishap is quite an accomplishment. Clearly, these two showed an ability to learn quickly and put that knowledge to good use. One could argue that they got lucky, akin to a drunk "successfully" navigating his car home after a late night carousing at the local bar, but this is roughly 4 years and 24,000 miles of sailing we are talking about. Add to that, Pat's success in options trading which afforded them the opportunity to purchase their Cat in the first place, and they followed up the circumnavigation by taking first place in a little multi-stage country crossing car rally.

Here's to the Bums whose account of their sailing exploits got me interested in the first place!
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Old 07-11-2008, 16:52   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli View Post
Does the term "strap hanger" come to mind? There are guys that run boats and there are guys that sail on boats. Don't confuse the two. Just because you are crew on a racing boat doesn't mean you really know much about sailing. The ability to spin a winch does not imply you have the faintest clue about sailing or managing a boat.

All that said, racing on a boat can teach allot about sailing if you want to learn the lessons. I highly recomend those wanting to learn how to sail RACE.

Joli..

I like the way you put it the best...and Im going to take it further and take the other tack and disagree with most of you here...and say the racers are hands down the far better sailors IF and When they pull back into a cruising mode that you are comparing them too.

For example whats the most important thing in clawing off a lee shore?
Answer..The ability to get your boat to weather.

Who buy nature of constant practice forces themselves to be the best at that..yep the racer.

Another one..Who sees on average more carnegie and broken equipment and has to deal with it..

Answer..the racer..

We could go on and on

How many countless more stories latly have we read about clueless cruisers not being able to fix broken stuff compared to racers and then hitting the mommy button...

Now Im not taking away from valued cruising skills when not under sail like anchoring...Learning how to set a good anchor for storm conditions and packing stores for extended cruising which all need to be learned also but I will argue a lot less time then it takes to get great boat handeling skills and Im not talking rail meat winch grinder here Im talking the owner racing skipper..

I have never raced and I know my skills as a sailor are lacking for it..there is now way on earth it cant be so.

Now the mentality or mind set of each is what is open for argument in any given situation like rather you agree with pushing a boat or not ...but not the skill set...
Below is my litmus test..see if it fits yours..

IMHO
If I had to chose whom Id want to set out and rescue me in a like vessel in like conditions..Id choose an offshore racer any day over your average cruiser.

He will have more experance in more areas that count hands down... including man over boards.
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Old 07-11-2008, 17:11   #12
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Quote:
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Joli..

1/...Who sees on average more carnage and broken equipment and has to deal with it..

Answer..the racer..

IMHO
2/...If I had to chose whom Id want to set out and rescue me in a like vessel in like conditions..Id choose an offshore racer any day over your average cruiser.

I think 1/... just sunk your argument and in 2/...speed does not equate to safety.


There is either arrogance or just a bunch of sheep full of testosterone that amazes me when Racers sail (no race)…. into known storms like Fastnet or Sydney/Hobart.... that is somehow condoned as being a right of passage

IMHO….sheer idiocy!


Stillraining…..Seamanship is all about sailing safely and being proactive in avoiding all the emergencies Racers seem to practice so much.

I would sail with you any day over Captain Flash Danger


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Old 07-11-2008, 18:32   #13
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Quote:
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I think 1/... just sunk your argument and in 2/...speed does not equate to safety.


There is either arrogance or just a bunch of sheep full of testosterone that amazes me when Racers sail (no race)…. into known storms like Fastnet or Sydney/Hobart.... that is somehow condoned as being a right of passage

IMHO….sheer idiocy!


Stillraining…..Seamanship is all about sailing safely and being proactive in avoiding all the emergencies Racers seem to practice so much.

I would sail with you any day over Captain Flash Danger


Thanks Pelagic..

I would learn a ton from you I am sure.

I guess my main argument was missed...and not well articulated.

I tried to separate the racing mentality out of the equation and put both sailor's skills on the same playing field in a laid back cruising mode and in the same vessel trying to achieve the same goal.

I guess I did not do that successfully.

In that environment ( If you could get a racer to shift down gears ) I truly believe he possesses more inherent skill sets handeling a boat in adverse or marginal conditions...just from the pure fact he has pushed thoes limits..Im not arguing the sanity of that decition and I tried to state that when I said..... "Now the mentality or mind set of each is what is open for argument in any given situation like rather you agree with pushing a boat or not ...but not the skill set..."

It is the skill set that I believe the OP was considering in his question...maybe Im wrong and he will pipe up here and tell us.


So when do my sailing lessons with you begin..Mate... You can drive me boat any day and I'll pull the strings for ya as best I can...
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Old 07-11-2008, 19:48   #14
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Old 09-11-2008, 03:46   #15
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what it comes down to in the end is the individual.
the racer knows his stuff
the cruser knows his
racing is a team you dont need to know everything
crusing is teemwork if youre not soloing
then on that note we have solo racers

its all a matter of perspective and down to each persons knoladge and experences.
none can be alike or even compared to each other.
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