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Old 16-06-2015, 18:00   #61
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

One that gets up my nose is the use of 'pushpit' for what would be better called the taffrail...
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Old 16-06-2015, 18:12   #62
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

I am ashamed to admit that I do have a "ROPE" boarding ladder aboard....ghastly oversight on my part. On the port hand or if you wish the starboard hand I find it useful to keep the wenches (in this case wench) in the focsle and the wrenches in the in the tool locker lest I mistakenly select an incorrect tool for the task at hand. Another heinous error averted!
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Old 16-06-2015, 18:15   #63
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Originally Posted by IdoraKeeper View Post
I am ashamed to admit that I do have a "ROPE" boarding ladder aboard....ghastly oversight on my part. On the port hand or if you wish the starboard hand I find it useful to keep the wenches (in this case wench) in the focsle and the wrenches in the in the tool locker lest I mistakenly select an incorrect tool for the task at hand. Another heinous error averted!
Yep, it can be a real bugger when a tool ends up in the wrong place.... or so they tell me.
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Old 16-06-2015, 18:21   #64
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

I have never heard a story of origin for the painter line.


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Old 16-06-2015, 19:59   #65
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Ok, so a sheet is a rope with a purpose. What then goes on a bunk, bed, berth, rack??

Bedding is what it was called in the Navy.


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Old 16-06-2015, 20:03   #66
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

Also, Fo'c's'le is in daily use in the U.S. Navy as the topside bow, multiple apostrophes and all. As is Bo'sun and Bo'sun's Mate.

It's funny--the Navy is quite determined to keep its nautical jargon, to the point of referring to water fountains as scuttlebutts, candy and snacks as gedunk, and packs as ditty-bags. All required for a bluejacket in basic.



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Old 16-06-2015, 20:25   #67
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

What makes a lazarette a locker?
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Old 16-06-2015, 20:41   #68
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Nautical terminology is perhaps the oldest jargon in the English language, so old that it actually evolved a bit separately from modern english from a common middle-english root.

Jargon in all fields has the goal of increased precision in communication, but is generally used more to convey mastery of and status in the subject matter rather than to impart real precision. I work in information technology, which is also steeped in its own specific jargon, so I have to put up with tiresome jargon-infested dominance displays daily.

If you want to use language precisely, then you should use nautical terms for nautical things. This is especially important when crewing with strangers, because words like port and starboard mean entirely different things than left and right, and because knowing the specific names of objects is critical to safety. Referring to sheets by color is a really hassle in an emergency.

If you want to be understood by non-experts, then you should use the terms they will understand. I tend to respect the listener by speaking to them in terms they'll understand and not presuming to teach unless I've been asked to act in that role, which I do assume to be the case when I'm introducing people to sailing. But if they're going to work with me, they need to be competent in the jargon of the work. Otherwise they're just passengers.

I joined the Navy at age 18 and have been using nautical terminology my entire adult life, as it is required for shipboard life, so I find it quite natural and have taught my children to use nautical terminology onboard our boat. But I switch immediately away from it when my goal is to be understood. And we don't use some of the toilet terms that are common in the Navy.

To the immediate subject, a stateroom is a centuries-old term for a senior officer's quarters on a ship and specifically refers to a compartment (not room) which is not shared with anyone other than than perhaps the captain's spouse if aboard. That is what makes it distinct from a cabin, which is a shared berthing.

Junior officers shared cabins (although they often referred to them as their staterooms), which are multi-person but still relatively private and small compartments.

Enlisted crew slept in berthings, were large open-space multi-person sleeping compartments.

There's no specific meaning on private recreational craft other than superficial similarity to those compartments on larger professionally crewed ships. I think a reasonable distinction for private boats would be that a stateroom includes a private head, and a cabin does not. I would call anything with more than one rack (bunk) a berthing.
That's pretty much what I was going to say. Us crew members slept in your division's crew's quarters. The Chief's had their Chief's quarters and that was really great when I made Chief. Junior officers had their shared Junior Officer's quarters in shared staterooms in Officer's Country and the department heads, Captain and XO had their staterooms in Officer's Country. Officer's Country was off limits to crew unless they had specific business there.
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Old 16-06-2015, 20:44   #69
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Ok, so a sheet is a rope with a purpose. What then goes on a bunk, bed, berth, rack??
This is old-timey but what we called the thing that you stuffed your mattress in a "fart sack."

Anyone else ever hear that term before? I've got an old one around here somewhere.
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Old 16-06-2015, 20:47   #70
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

Actually, I've heard from a number of sources (advising against jargon) that the primary purpose of jargon is to prevent non-members of a group from comprehending what the group is saying. It is a way of putting down the auslanders and confirming who really is a member of the clique. An intentional way of preventing communication across the wall surrounding a group, nothing more.
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Old 16-06-2015, 20:54   #71
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

'Fart Sack' as I understand is the name for the bunk itself..... the mattress ( which back in the day british merchant seamen had to provide for themselves) was a "donkey's breakfast"
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Old 16-06-2015, 22:15   #72
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Actually, I've heard from a number of sources (advising against jargon) that the primary purpose of jargon is to prevent non-members of a group from comprehending what the group is saying. It is a way of putting down the auslanders and confirming who really is a member of the clique. An intentional way of preventing communication across the wall surrounding a group, nothing more.
Well, I dunno... how about a square rigger with dozens if not hundreds of ropes (er, lines) scattered around the decks. Each one had a specific name, and knowledge of those names was essential to successful running of the ship. Is that protective jargon, or is it necessary knowledge?

I imagine that your definition is correct in some instances, but perhaps not in the seagoing case.

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Old 16-06-2015, 22:39   #73
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Wenches.....
Self tailing?
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Old 16-06-2015, 22:46   #74
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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Picky picky..... Admiral Smyth hyphenates it.....
<pedant mode>
"hyphenated"
That was 150 years ago.
</pedant mode>
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Old 16-06-2015, 22:54   #75
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Re: Terminology -- "Stateroom"

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<pedant mode>
"hyphenated"
That was 150 years ago.
</pedant mode>
Old Admiral Smyth hyphenated it..... and his great-great-grandson Admiral Bruce Smyth still hyphenates it.....
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