Surviving World War Three at Sea

[Cpt Pat]

I appreciate everyone's comments here, and I respect those who disagree. I didn't expect the thread to become a geo-political debate, but that debate has been very thoughtful and insightful. I an not a "prepper."

I hoped to convey the message that those of you who provision and equip your vessels for extended voyages are ALREADY prepared to go on with life for some time without a dependence on land-based infrastructure. As cruisers, you are also already prepared to be independent and self-reliant. These are all qualities of a survivor of any major disaster.

Besides provisioning your vessel to stay out at least two weeks, the only other items I would add to the list of essentials are a bucket for washing the deck; a sextant, charts and tables (and practice) for navigation offshore without GPS, and if your budget allows, a geiger counter. You already have everything else -- including the most important ingredient -- the mental preparation to survive without shoreside conveniences.

My motive for writing my original post was to convey specific tactics and knowledge to fill in the gaps - and to offer encouragement to go on, with a will to survive, when so many others would throw in the towel. I can't speculate on the likelihood that such an event will ever occur. It is hopefully a "high impact - low probability event." But my world view is that the likelihood is growing, and I am personally appalled at the dearth of radiological defense information offered to the public.

People far more informed than I are also concerned. An article co-written by former CIA director R. James Woolsey, published less than two weeks ago conveys this concern. How North Korea could kill 90 percent of Americans | TheHill.

Here is quote from that article regarding EMP attack:

"In February and March of 2015, former senior national security officials of the Reagan and Clinton administrations warned that North Korea should be regarded as capable of delivering by satellite a small nuclear warhead, specially designed to make a high-altitude electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack against the United States. According to the Congressional EMP Commission, a single warhead delivered by North Korean satellite could blackout the national electric grid and other life-sustaining critical infrastructures for over a year—killing 9 of 10 Americans by starvation and societal collapse.

Two North Korean satellites, the KMS-3 and KMS-4, presently orbit over the U.S. on trajectories consistent with surprise EMP attack."

Maybe there will never be a need for my post. Nothing could make me happier. But I hope the reader will reflect on how they have already accomplished the most essential steps to surviving by developing the skills and mental attitude needed to sail on extended cruises - and that they are therefore in a unique position to survive.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

I hoped to convey the message that those of you who provision and equip your vessels for extended voyages are ALREADY prepared to go on with life for some time without a dependence on land-based infrastructure. As cruisers, you are also already prepared to be independent and self-reliant. These are all qualities of a survivor of any major disaster.

Can't disagree with that, and in that light any suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

Maybe there will never be a need for my post. Nothing could make me happier. But I hope the reader will reflect on how they have already accomplished the most essential steps to surviving by developing the skills and mental attitude needed to sail on extended cruises - and are therefore in a unique position to survive.

Beyond a realistic assessment of one's abilities and preparedness for extended cruising, there's not a lot to be accomplished by dwelling on remotely-possible apocalyptic scenarios. If someone does find themselves ruminating on this, and there's a feeling of helplessness and uncertainty, I would think that the most productive actions would be along the lines of joining the National Guard, or the Red Cross, or the local Search and Rescue, etc... or maybe something as radical as being an activist for peace, and actively campaigning for politicians who want to bring more peace and stability into the world. Something more than just thinking about how to run away in our boats, which is a short term strategy at best.

[boatman61]

There was a story that went round back in the day that if you sank a bottle of scotch within minutes of the nuclear explosion it would safeguard you from the worst effects of radiation exposure.. if alcohol poisoning did not kill you first..

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Can't disagree with that, and in that light any suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

Beyond a realistic assessment of one's abilities and preparedness for extended cruising, there's not a lot to be accomplished by dwelling on remotely-possible apocalyptic scenarios. If someone does find themselves ruminating on this, and there's a feeling of helplessness and uncertainty, I would think that the most productive actions would be along the lines of joining the National Guard, or the Red Cross, or the local Search and Rescue, etc... or maybe something as radical as being an activist for peace, and actively campaigning for politicians who want to bring more peace and stability into the world. Something more than just thinking about how to run away in our boats, which is a short term strategy at best.

I see it as being a bit like firefighting. Preventing fires from starting in the first place is the best use of your energies. But if no one has taught you how to put out a fire or how to evacuate a burning building, the real defeating attitude is the resignation that you will just sit there and burn. Prevention and preparation are not mutually exclusive. You can do both.

[a64pilot]

I have it think that to a great extent, world wide EMP is like the Millennium bug was.

[mikemenza]

To the OP, thanks !

.. a mere 12 years ago or so, India and Pakistan were on the verge of a nuclear exchange.. 12 to 15 million deaths was an estimate of the first exchange, not even considering any long term effects.

Food for thought.. There are around 50 nuclear weapons missing between the US and Russia...

There's a book out there that describes the effects of a single nuclear EMP burst between Earth and Clark's Belt.. It wipes all the satellites..

Fukus-hima is still bleeding directly into the Pacific for 6 years since April 11, 2011.. Likely the biggest threat we face, mostly ignored..

Have a great day..

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Besides provisioning your vessel to stay out at least two weeks, the only other items I would add to the list of essentials are a bucket for washing the deck; a sextant, charts and tables (and practice) for navigation offshore without GPS, and if your budget allows, a geiger counter. You already have everything else -- including the most important ingredient -- the mental preparation to survive without shoreside conveniences.

Two weeks?

What are two weeks worth of provisions going to get you?

There was an abandon sailboat found floating near shore in Cormac McCarthy's post-apocalyptic book The Road. Maybe you should check it out

[Sailor_Hutch]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Two weeks?

What are two weeks worth of provisions going to get you?

There was an abandon sailboat found floating near shore in Cormac McCarthy's post-apocalyptic book The Road. Maybe you should check it out

I think that was a reference to about how long it'd take to wait-out the fallout. But yeah, there'd be no food ashore, so would want to have plenty aboard.

[Cpt Pat]

Responding to several comments here, that it's better to be at ground zero and die immediately, or to break out that bottle of scotch and drink to the end of the world: I don't believe you.

The instinct for self preservation is just too strong, too primal. I believe nearly everyone would do whatever they knew how to do to survive - even believing their odds are slim. Dismissing the topic is just a act of avoidance. I'm confident you would try to survive.

When I enter a public building that's full of people, I take just a few moments to identify the exists - especially those in the direction opposite of where everyone came in. It takes only a few seconds. I remember what happened at The Station nightclub on February 20, 2003, when everyone packed and blocked the front exit - killing 100 panicked patrons in a fire. There were other exists available, but most people habitually went out the same way they'd come in.

What I purpose is that, in effect, you spend a very small amount of time to identify "your exit." Even though you hopefully will never need it. It's better than experiencing desperation if you ever do.

Can you survive the radioactive aftermath? To a limited extent, you already have. Anyone born before 1951 has survived the immediate effects of 97 nuclear tests conducted in the atmosphere from the Nevada Test Site that spread fallout over most of the 48 States. You've survived the fallout spread over the whole planet from a total of 504 atmospheric tests conducted worldwide, totaling more than 400 megatons. Everyone alive today is surviving the long term effects of those tests. It's not good, but we are each a living testament that it is survivable. The genetic effects of radiation tends to skip generations -- it's the grandchildren of those exposed that see the greatest rate of birth defects. Maybe you are the grandchild of someone who lived through that era. And you're still here.

It's the attitude of hopelessness that really disturbs me, and that I feel the need to resist here. Humanity has survived some really serious challenges in the past, and I am hopeful that our species can survive our own stupidity, carelessness, or accident if a nuclear war ever does occur. You can be sure that a few thousand bureaucrats will emerge from their bunkers unscathed - many will be the very people who caused or could have prevented the catastrophe. Why let them be the only one's left?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

Responding to several comments here, that it's better to be at ground zero and die immediately, or to break out that bottle of scotch and drink to the end of the world: I don't believe you.

The instinct for self preservation is just too strong, too primal. I believe nearly everyone would do whatever they knew how to do to survive - even believing their odds are slim. Dismissing the topic is just a act of avoidance. I'm confident you would try to survive.

I think you're too optimistic. I see more and more people being naive and complacent. Even more do realize something is wrong but choose to look the other way and do nothing. Yesterday I watched some footage of the tsunami in Japan and too many people were just ignoring the warnings, even ignoring the police telling them to seek high ground because you know, "that won't happen here". And that is Japan, imagine how the West will do...

Read "36 hours" which I think is a realistic view on our society during such events. I'm sure there are many more books like that.

[LakeSuperior]

Coincidentally enough Jedi, I finished the entire 36 Hours series written by Bobby Akart two days ago. So it is fresh in my mind. The series is comprised of 6 volumes. Overall I give the series a C+. The first three have merit and are better reads. Perhaps I started getting fatigued by number 4.

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I think you're too optimistic. I see more and more people being naive and complacent. Even more do realize something is wrong but choose to look the other way and do nothing. Yesterday I watched some footage of the tsunami in Japan and too many people were just ignoring the warnings, even ignoring the police telling them to seek high ground because you know, "that won't happen here". And that is Japan, imagine how the West will do...

Read "36 hours" which I think is a realistic view on our society during such events. I'm sure there are many more books like that.

I’m inclined to view this through the prism of Ernest Becker’s book: The Denial of Death. Any apocalypse that might erase people's legacies is taboo because it threatens the perpetuation of what Becker called people's “immortality projects.” At an emotional level, people fear being erased from history more than death.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Cpt Pat

It's the attitude of hopelessness that really disturbs me, and that I feel the need to resist here. Humanity has survived some really serious challenges in the past, and I am hopeful that our species can survive our own stupidity, carelessness, or accident if a nuclear war ever does occur.

It's a bigger act of hope to work now to try to stop the disaster scenarios occurring, and to hook up with groups and organizations who do the heavy lifting whenever there's a disaster. Relief organizations. Search & Rescue. They're the ones who will make life livable if there's to be an 'after'.

Beyond some common-sense preparations for all of life's little bumps, obsessing about shtf and stocking up on freeze-dried foods and ammo is at best a short-term solution. All the surviving 'preppers' will sooner or later come back to land, or emerge from their bunkers, to join up again with those who would have already started to work together to rebuild a functioning society.

How's that for hope?

[Cpt Pat]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

It's a bigger act of hope to work now to try to stop the disaster scenarios occurring, and to hook up with groups and organizations who do the heavy lifting whenever there's a disaster. Relief organizations. Search & Rescue. They're the ones who will make life livable if there's to be an 'after'.

Beyond some common-sense preparations for all of life's little bumps, obsessing about shtf and stocking up on freeze-dried foods and ammo is at best a short-term solution. All the surviving 'preppers' will sooner or later come back to land, or emerge from their bunkers, to join up again with those who would have already started to work together to rebuild a functioning society.

How's that for hope?

Sounds good to me! I wouldn't use the comparative: "bigger." I'd substitute: "essential." Working to prevent fires is essential. But, if that effort fails, knowing how to evacuate a burning building comes next.

I'm doing many of those activities myself. I'm keeping my EMT skills current and I volunteer with a medical emergency response group. I maintain a solar-powered ham radio station and participate in emergency communications drills with local disaster authorities. I would never propose non-involvement.

If by "bigger" you mean that preventing a war requires much more effort, I agree. Since the world has nearly gone to nuclear war several times because of miscalculations, only total nuclear disarmament can fully prevent that from happening. All of us can help reduce the likelihood of war. But I don't see that threat being entirely eliminated anytime soon.

[Tkeeth]

Originally Posted by barnakiel

;-)

You are being silly.

You actually do not want to survive WWIII in the first place.

Cheers,
b.

My survival kit is 2 rounds, her first, then me,