Stupid, Ridiculous Prices for Stuff

[poiu]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Speaking as what I think you would call a "progressive" or "liberal", I agree. It's what I've been saying all along: The cost of an item in a capitalist economy is largely set by what people are willing to pay, not by any inherent value of said item.

It's just too bad rich people and corporations don't agree with you. They hire armies of lobbyists, and buy all the politicians they can, to ensure government keeps fking with the system to ensure their interests are protected, meanwhile screwing the majority of the citizens.

A liberal view? That's pretty commie in my book. Rich people and corporations screwing the majority - . Nope, It's the other way round.

Most of the developed economies are democracies, so are ruled by the people for the benefit of the people. The people are the voters and the politicians their servants. The politicians know who keeps them in a job and they look after them taking measures to keep them happy and to win their votes. The most popular vote winner is to tax the rich. How many votes do the 1%ers have to counter this? 1% of course, and are totally screwed because of it.

I pay nearly 50% tax on what I earn, 20% on most of what I spend and will pay 40% of any balance when I give it to my offspring on death. That is a cumulative tax burden of maybe 75% . And how much do the typical voters pay? - A third close to nothing and the bulk pay somewhere between zero and 20% for everything. Not a lot. What's worse, I put no burden on the state. I have private health insurance, private education, private pension etc. I will never draw social security or any benefit, so unlike for the masses the vast bulk of government areas of expenditure miss me completely, yet I pay for it all.

It's an inevitable situation. We have given the masses the power and they have lined their own pockets. That's corruption and injustice in my book.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind paying more than most and am pleased to live in a society where the truly needy are looked after completely and I am still happy to have enough left over to still be very prosperous. It's just too much tax, that's all. Too much oppression of the minority by the majority. The balance is wrong.

I have a solution to it all and I will get justice. As soon as I can throw of the various shackles that bind me, I will be off on the high seas. There they can whistle for their taxes and I'll be laughing.

[smj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Sure, I'll share our little "secret."

WE DON'T OWN A HOUSE! AND TWO COSTLY BIG ASS CARS!.

You know.... The very expensive "American Dream" thing.

House + 2 big ass cars = Stupid, ridiculous stuff IMHO

I'm going to have to agree with you. We lived aboard for 18 years, never owned a new car, and don't have children. We recently bought a really inexpensive house and downsized in the boat. The house actually costs less to live in than the boat did. You said something many pages back that struck a nerve and set me of, and for that I apologize. I do think $35,000 per year for health insurance per couple is outrageous, or it's really good insurance.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[smj]

Originally Posted by poiu

A liberal view? That's pretty commie in my book. Rich people and corporations screwing the majority - . Nope, It's the other way round.

Most of the developed economies are democracies, so are ruled by the people for the benefit of the people. The people are the voters and the politicians their servants. The politicians know who keeps them in a job and they look after them taking measures to keep them happy and to win their votes. The most popular vote winner is to tax the rich. How many votes do the 1%ers have to counter this? 1% of course, and are totally screwed because of it.

I pay nearly 50% tax on what I earn, 20% on most of what I spend and will pay 40% of any balance when I give it to my offspring on death. That is a cumulative tax burden of maybe 75% . And how much do the typical voters pay? - A third close to nothing and the bulk pay somewhere between zero and 20% for everything. Not a lot. What's worse, I put no burden on the state. I have private health insurance, private education, private pension etc. I will never draw social security or any benefit, so unlike for the masses the vast bulk of government areas of expenditure miss me completely, yet I pay for it all.

It's an inevitable situation. We have given the masses the power and they have lined their own pockets. That's corruption and injustice in my book.

Don't get me wrong though, I don't mind paying more than most and am pleased to live in a society where the truly needy are looked after completely and I am still happy to have enough left over to still be very prosperous. It's just too much tax, that's all. Too much oppression of the minority by the majority. The balance is wrong.

I have a solution to it all and I will get justice. As soon as I can throw of the various shackles that bind me, I will be off on the high seas. There they can whistle for their taxes and I'll be laughing.

I have a solution, it's called income equality. If the poor and middle class made more and the rich less wouldn't that solve the dilemma?


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[colemj]

[QUOTE=Kenomac;1956602]

Originally Posted by Boatguy30

Like I said earlier... Her employer pays the $35,000 on her behalf. We get a government statement showing the amount and her employer will need to start paying taxes on the amount in 2018 I believe.

Just ask your own employer what Blue Cross Blue Shield costs for two people age 59. They'll give you the same number.

You are over-playing this point. The employer's health insurance costs for its employees are not "taken" from the employee. They are a business cost of obtaining employees.

If health insurance suddenly became free, you would not receive that $35,000/yr in extra salary - the same way that if the businesses in your office building did not have to pay for electricity and furniture, their employees would not receive that saved money.

Likewise, if the employer stopped its portion of contributions to medicare taxes, social security taxes, 401k matches, etc, the employee would not see these amounts suddenly appear in her paycheck.

It is not costing your wife $35,000/yr for medical insurance, and it is a gross misunderstanding of business if you still think it does.

Mark

[colemj]

Originally Posted by smj

We lived aboard for 18 years, never owned a new car, and don't have children.

This is the real secret to affording to do anything, at a young(ish) age, that appears "rich" to others - house, car and kids.

At least, what those things mean to the typical American - huge expensive house, new expensive cars, and over-indulged kids.

Most don't even know they have been trapped, since it all seems perfectly "normal" to them.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not advocating no house, no car and no kids - just the form and focus these have taken in the current American culture.

Mark

[Delancey]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

Isn't a Merkin a false hair piece for the pubic area?

That's what we call those little clumps of sargassum you see floating around out there, merkins.

[Kenomac]

[QUOTE=colemj;1956797]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You are over-playing this point. The employer's health insurance costs for its employees are not "taken" from the employee. They are a business cost of obtaining employees.

If health insurance suddenly became free, you would not receive that $35,000/yr in extra salary - the same way that if the businesses in your office building did not have to pay for electricity and furniture, their employees would not receive that saved money.

Likewise, if the employer stopped its portion of contributions to medicare taxes, social security taxes, 401k matches, etc, the employee would not see these amounts suddenly appear in her paycheck.

It is not costing your wife $35,000/yr for medical insurance, and it is a gross misunderstanding of business if you still think it does.

Mark

Then why do many employers including my wife's employer routinely offer huge retirement incentives to get the employees on the expensive health insurance plans to quit or retire early? I'll tell you why.... The employer always figures in the total cost of retaining a valued employee, which includes the complete package..... wage, retirement, healthcare, social security contribution, workmans compensation insurance, paid days off.... everything.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by colemj

This is the real secret to affording to do anything, at a young(ish) age, that appears "rich" to others - house, car and kids.

At least, what those things mean to the typical American - huge expensive house, new expensive cars, and over-indulged kids.

Most don't even know they have been trapped, since it all seems perfectly "normal" to them.

Before anyone gets the wrong idea, I am not advocating no house, no car and no kids - just the form and focus these have taken in the current American culture.

Mark

Wow! I almost fell off my kitchen table chair... 'Looks like we agree on something.

It's been ten years now, since we last owned a house, and thirty years since we purchased an expensive gas guzzling car.

[stefano_ita]

Just to know...

Does a really private healt insurance in USA cost 35.000 usd at year ???? :heek:

No because seriously if it's the average go with an european insurance, 2000 euro, cover all around the world, whatever, included risky sports, and reverange of minimum of 50-100 euro...

or come to italy, enjoy the state, go to ER room, and get all the cure you need for free (or 10 euro ticket if it's not a real emergency)

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

Just to know...

Does a really private healt insurance in USA cost 35.000 usd at year ???? :heek:

No because seriously if it's the average go with an european insurance, 2000 euro, cover all around the world, whatever, included risky sports, and reverange of minimum of 50-100 euro...

or come to italy, enjoy the state, go to ER room, and get all the cure you need for free (or 10 euro ticket if it's not a real emergency)

Yes, ours really does cost $35,000. "Believe it or not." Another time I almost fell off the kitchen table chair.... was the first time I saw the Obamacare employer financial disclosure statement regarding healthcare two years ago. I had no idea it cost that much. I'd always figured $15,000 or so.

[Cthoops]

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

Just to know...

Does a really private healt insurance in USA cost 35.000 usd at year ???? :heek:

No because seriously if it's the average go with an european insurance, 2000 euro, cover all around the world, whatever, included risky sports, and reverange of minimum of 50-100 euro...

or come to italy, enjoy the state, go to ER room, and get all the cure you need for free (or 10 euro ticket if it's not a real emergency)

It depends on the employer and the plan. We have what I would consider gold-plated health insurance, and the total cost for Mr. Cthoops and me (what the employer pays plus what we pay) is approximately $15,000/year. We personally pay a VERY small fraction of that, but we recognize that we are extremely fortunate in that regard.

[stefano_ita]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Yes, ours really does cost $35,000. "Believe it or not." Another time I almost fell off the kitchen table chair.... was the first time I saw the Obamacare employer financial disclosure statement regarding healthcare two years ago. I had no idea it cost that much. I'd always figured $15,000 or so.

35.000 usd for one person or for the couple (two person?)

Seriously..in italy to pay 35.000 euro of taxes you have to declare it at least 75.000...of wich means average month net salary of 2500 euro/month...but in italy the taxes you pay 15-20% goes away as mafia, the friends of the major, the cousin,ecc....
For this we have canyon in our roads and healt care even the 3rd best in the world is getting a little worste, and taxes are rising to keep the system balanced...

In austria about 40% taxation, road smooth as the silk, waste bin everywhere perfectly shining and clean, no broken sidewalk, new bus every 3 years for public transport, eccc

[colemj]

[QUOTE=Kenomac;1956807]

Originally Posted by colemj

Then why do many employers including my wife's employer routinely offer huge retirement incentives to get the employees on the expensive health insurance plans to quit or retire early? I'll tell you why.... The employer always figures in the total cost of retaining a valued employee, which includes the complete package..... wage, retirement, healthcare, social security contribution, workmans compensation insurance, paid days off.... everything.

I don't understand your response, or the question in it, as it relates to my post.

Do you agree that your wife is not paying $35,000/yr for health insurance? And that if the employer wasn't paying all of those things you list, your wife's salary would not see those savings? And that you have over-played this point trying to avoid cognitive dissonance with your chosen personal narrative?

Employers have always offered incentives to move their most expensive employees off the payroll and into retirement. This has been the case since the industrial age. It also has the benefit of moving new people into the workforce. It has nothing to do with Democrat/Republican, Obama, or any of the other proletariate rally screeds.

Mark

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by stefano_ita

35.000 usd for one person or for the couple (two person?)

Seriously..in italy to pay 35.000 euro of taxes you have to declare it at least 75.000...of wich means average month net salary of 2500 euro/month...but in italy the taxes you pay 15-20% goes away as mafia, the friends of the major, the cousin,ecc....

$35,000 is insurance for two people on an expensive plan my wife signed up for 30 years ago. Beginning in 2018, we and/or her employer (depending on how you look at it) will need to pay additional income tax 50% or thereabouts on that amount thanks to Obamacare.

Your roads in Italy are actually much nicer than the roads here in Massachusetts. Maybe we can meet up sometime when I return to Italy in May.

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

the first time I saw the Obamacare employer financial disclosure statement regarding healthcare two years ago.

This financial disclosure predates Obamacare (and Obama) - the company we worked for was mandated to do it. We haven't worked for 7 years, and it was being done a few years before we left.

Mark