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Old 05-10-2013, 12:11   #31
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
What makes you think we will somehow change?
Well, if we all have pat excuses for why change isn't possible, then change isn't possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by delmarrey
It's consumption and governments!
...
It's the rats in a cage syndrome.
Well, make up your mind. Which is it? Rats don't have governments, btw.

Why are these excuses so attractive? How did the US overcome better excuses than these to pull together and make some serious personal and national sacrifices to turn the tide in WW II?

Tightening the belt a notch or two and taking some responsibility for the waste one's country produces would seem like child's-play by comparison.

Quote:
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thank God for common sense and George Carlin!
Note that in George's rant, the thesis is that the earth will most likely survive us. Hard to disagree with that. It will. So, our job is to survive as well. Or is that too haaaaaard?
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:16   #32
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But the problem is simply too much "harvest" = too many humans.

What is the solution?

Other than Dan Brown's "Inferno".
I'm afraid then" over population" argument is a cop out , most serious pollution is coming from industrialised nations. These re not necessary the most populous.

What it needs is aggressive anti pollution regimes, rigorous enforcement backed by serious penalties.

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Old 05-10-2013, 12:17   #33
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50%??? Not in my house. You will need to substantiate that.

Humans have always done it this way. Also all other living organisms.

Eat until starved.

What makes you think we will somehow change?

I hope you are right though.
All studies show population stabilising by 2050 or at the very latest 2100. Education and economic development result in smaller birth rates. Europe is below the replacement rates for example. Its not " inevitable "

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Old 05-10-2013, 12:20   #34
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Pretty simple really.

Too many humans.

Not enough water.

Solution = Fewer humans.

Now the hard part........

Who has a plan that will work?
I know...we'll call it The Solution! After it doesn't work, we'll revise it and call it The Final Solution. Hey...

I have some concerns that such a solution will be imposed either by madmen or by nature itself in the form of pandemic. I'm aware that sounds alarmist, but if you keep up with the science journals, it's clear that we are becoming very good as a species with manipulating life at a basic level. We are not, however, very good at outgrowing our selfish chimp hardwiring. Think "genetic engineer who is also an adherent of medieval deity". They are not incompable nor are they rare combos.

And if you think the Black Death or a reasonably virulent analog wouldn't happen again all on its own, only far more ferociously in our packed, stacked and linked cities, you haven't studied history very closely.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:42   #35
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

someone or something will come along and exterminate about half the population after which event the survivors will call it the ultimate wtf and those who survived will write it all down and blame republicans... it is written in stone. how dare we argue. oh yes and the remainder of earth, aka democrats, will close all open air public places of impressiveness and beauty inclusive of oceans....
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Old 05-10-2013, 13:26   #36
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by delmarrey View Post
Food is not the problem. It's consumption and governments! Land, water, air, and a multitude of natural resources are being used up and controlled more then ever.


.
Yes.

When I said "harvest" I did not just mean food.

I meant anything a human uses, including oil, fish and/or water, whatever.
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Old 05-10-2013, 13:32   #37
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by S/V Alchemy View Post
I know...we'll call it The Solution! After it doesn't work, we'll revise it and call it The Final Solution. Hey...

I have some concerns that such a solution will be imposed either by madmen or by nature itself in the form of pandemic. I'm aware that sounds alarmist, but if you keep up with the science journals, it's clear that we are becoming very good as a species with manipulating life at a basic level. We are not, however, very good at outgrowing our selfish chimp hardwiring. Think "genetic engineer who is also an adherent of medieval deity". They are not incompable nor are they rare combos.

And if you think the Black Death or a reasonably virulent analog wouldn't happen again all on its own, only far more ferociously in our packed, stacked and linked cities, you haven't studied history very closely.
I think the solution will come from Mother Nature too. We "chimps" just think we are smart enough.
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Old 05-10-2013, 13:37   #38
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I think the solution will come from Mother Nature too. We "chimps" just think we are smart enough.
Why do certain people simply sit and wait for " nature" to do " something" as an excuse to do nothing themselves. You think nature will put back the rainforest. Yes nature will will out , leaving the planet barren and foul of that's what you mean

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Old 05-10-2013, 13:46   #39
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Why do certain people simply sit and wait for " nature" to do " something" as an excuse to do nothing themselves. You think nature will put back the rainforest. Yes nature will will out , leaving the planet barren and foul of that's what you mean

Dave
Pfftt.

We all are doing what we think we need to do right now. Aren't you?

If you want to help even more then you can't own a boat. Too much in it that could have been conserved for later or for someone else.
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Old 05-10-2013, 13:52   #40
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Pfftt.

We all are doing what we think we need to do right now. Aren't you?

If you want to help even more then you can't own a boat. Too much in it that could have been conserved for later or for someone else.
I try my best. , but that's not the point. We have institutional polluters. We need institutional response. You think tertiary processing of sewage would have become common without laws and penalties

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Old 05-10-2013, 14:03   #41
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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I try my best. , but that's not the point. We have institutional polluters. We need institutional response. You think tertiary processing of sewage would have become common without laws and penalties

Dave
Even with the laws and penalties sewage pollution is rampant. Sad that even more laws might help. It then moves to the realm of ethics and morality. Then one follows the Dollar. Or the Pound as I hear might happen.
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Old 05-10-2013, 16:41   #42
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Pfftt.

We all are doing what we think we need to do right now. Aren't you?
Sorry, are you saying that you think you need to piss on anyone advocating for some action on these problems?

Quote:
If you want to help even more then you can't own a boat. Too much in it that could have been conserved for later or for someone else.
Says who? Let's see your breakdown of resource allocation vs social benefit, and where sailboats are on that chart.

(Pretending that the only solution is going back to the stone age is another common excuse for inaction.)
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Old 05-10-2013, 16:54   #43
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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With sympathy to the moderators I wish to make this post, not to start a venomous discussion.....
Oh well....
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Old 05-10-2013, 17:13   #44
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Wink Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
Pretty simple really.

Too many humans.

Not enough water.

Solution = Fewer humans.

Now the hard part........

Who has a plan that will work?
You first.
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Old 05-10-2013, 20:06   #45
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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