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Old 04-10-2013, 18:55   #16
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

I do hope the ocean is rising,
I do hope the ice caps do melt,
Deep water I am always prizing,
It's too shallow here abouts I have felt.

Now some folk have fin keels below them,
And others, center boarders, it's true,
Catamarans sail well on the pond scum
But I think just a fathom will do.

So the sooner the ocean is deeper,
Is not soon enough, I confess,
For my boat and it's fin keel, I'll keep her,
And the shore folk tread water, I guess.
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:04   #17
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Watch out, senormechanico will send you a nice, loving PM.
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:20   #18
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Not many folk can take humor
While even less of them take rhyme,
They treat dogeral like a tumor
And their hours are a dark cheerless time.

Now me, I don't mind causing frenzy
With those who would lord over all,
I answer, if the PM will let me,
To the joy of anarchy's call.

So here's to the blessed deep water,
And here's to the far inland shore,
May the sea rise sooner than later
Let them without boats be boat-poor.
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Old 04-10-2013, 19:49   #19
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Dating fat ladies is like riding a moped; they're both alot of fun til your friends find out.

(I just know I'll be paying for that one, somewhere, somehow...)

Not enough quality trolling yet for me to rise to the bait, but I will mention how interesting it is that some people rush into the thread to tell us why they won't do anything. This is somehow enlightening? Must be really boring in some harbours, I guess.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:40   #20
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Tomorrow the sun will be rising,
This evening the tide will come in,
Some hack politician's aprising
Us that naught will occur without him.

But with a little more power
To guide us along the right path
Humanity would be in flower
Per the government's briliant new math.

They say that wisdom is knowing
What is changable and what is not,
And when hack politicians are crowing
A fairy tale crisis that's rot.
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Old 05-10-2013, 08:52   #21
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I think anyone that sails would arrive at the option that the oceans are suffering from mans uncaring attitude. One only has to see the incredible pollution , garbage and overfishing to realise the damage that was or is being done. Then add in acidification etc and its a further pointer to the fact that the time has come to actively and aggressively reduce such effects by whatever means.

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Old 05-10-2013, 09:22   #22
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
I think anyone that sails would arrive at the option that the oceans are suffering from mans uncaring attitude. One only has to see the incredible pollution , garbage and overfishing to realise the damage that was or is being done. Then add in acidification etc and its a further pointer to the fact that the time has come to actively and aggressively reduce such effects by whatever means.

Dave
But the problem is simply too much "harvest" = too many humans.

What is the solution?

Other than Dan Brown's "Inferno".
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Old 05-10-2013, 09:42   #23
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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But the problem is simply too much "harvest" = too many humans.
No, it isn't.

In the first world, about 50% of all food is simply thrown out. And us first-worlders still eat inordinately large amounts of "inefficient" food, especially meat. Crop efficiency is improving annually. So, feeding a larger population isn't yet a problem.

And there's still enough space (land) for a larger population.

The problem is not the numbers, it is the mess we make.

Our current hangup is unwillingness to recognize future requirements and to start planning for them, and to start making the necessary changes.

I have the expectation that as crises manifest themselves, they will get solved... somehow... and that the population will ultimately stabilize at a maintainable level. The question is whether we do it the easy way, by starting to change now, or the hard way.

Throwing up one's hands and dismissing the problem as "population" is a vote for the hard way.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:07   #24
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

And I thought it was simple, the oceans being the largest surface heat sink of our lovely planet.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:36   #25
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
No, it isn't.

In the first world, about 50% of all food is simply thrown out. And us first-worlders still eat inordinately large amounts of "inefficient" food, especially meat. Crop efficiency is improving annually. So, feeding a larger population isn't yet a problem.

And there's still enough space (land) for a larger population.

The problem is not the numbers, it is the mess we make.

Our current hangup is unwillingness to recognize future requirements and to start planning for them, and to start making the necessary changes.

I have the expectation that as crises manifest themselves, they will get solved... somehow... and that the population will ultimately stabilize at a maintainable level. The question is whether we do it the easy way, by starting to change now, or the hard way.

Throwing up one's hands and dismissing the problem as "population" is a vote for the hard way.
50%??? Not in my house. You will need to substantiate that.

Humans have always done it this way. Also all other living organisms.

Eat until starved.

What makes you think we will somehow change?

I hope you are right though.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:50   #26
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
No, it isn't.

In the first world, about 50% of all food is simply thrown out. And us first-worlders still eat inordinately large amounts of "inefficient" food, especially meat. Crop efficiency is improving annually. So, feeding a larger population isn't yet a problem.

And there's still enough space (land) for a larger population.

The problem is not the numbers, it is the mess we make.

Our current hangup is unwillingness to recognize future requirements and to start planning for them, and to start making the necessary changes.

I have the expectation that as crises manifest themselves, they will get solved... somehow... and that the population will ultimately stabilize at a maintainable level. The question is whether we do it the easy way, by starting to change now, or the hard way.

Throwing up one's hands and dismissing the problem as "population" is a vote for the hard way.
Food is not the problem. It's consumption and governments! Land, water, air, and a multitude of natural resources are being used up and controlled more then ever.

We are told to conserve or pay the price. While the wealthy consume to their hearts content b/c $ is nothing but a means to get more $$$$. We are conserving for their use.

It's the rats in a cage syndrome. The more you shove into a small space the more they fight, kill and hoard. The government shuts off all the lands outside the cities except what is already in use or what the big corps want to develop.

As a kid, with my parents, I use to go camping in Yosemite by just driving there and setting up a tent. There were no park rangers then. Now I can't even get in the place w/o an advanced appointment. It's just another source of income for the gov't. My old fishing hole up in the Sierra's is now fenced off to the public. And the list goes on.

As a young man I decided not to have any children due to the conditions I could see coming. With governments getting larger and technology forcing its way into our lives. Many of our old freedoms have been lost and more continue to be on a downward spiral.

Eventually the earth will shed us parasites or die. The population is growing faster then it can be educated.......... It needs to slow down dramatically, or be stopped/reduced.
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Old 05-10-2013, 10:53   #27
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

Actually, LE's number is pretty close. Lots of good research on the subject. Here's just one recent study by the UN's Food and Agriculture Organization (FOA) in 2011:

GLOBAL FOOD LOSSES AND FOOD WASTE

Summary:
"Roughly one-third of the edible parts of food produced for human consumption, gets lost or wasted globally, which is about 1.3 billion ton per year ... In medium- and high-income countries food is to a great extent wasted, meaning that it is thrown away even if it is still suitable for human consumption. Significant food loss and waste do, however, also occur early in the food supply chain."
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:00   #28
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

If we keep producing larvi the problem will solve itself.
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Old 05-10-2013, 11:07   #29
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

These discussions always seem to point fingers at over-population as the core problem. That's convenient, b/c it's a problem largely produced by others; by under-developed and developing parts of the world. This ignores the contributions we make to the global problems. Our volume of resource consumption is at least 1/2 the problem.

Once again, this core issue is resource use. Large populations use lots of resources, but this is more than matched by the intensity of resource use by people in the developed world. And here North American's are the kings (Canadians most especially). Our intensity of use -- our per-capita use -- has contributed far more to problems facing the oceans.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:01   #30
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Re: State of the Oceans - NOT a Climate Change Thread

thank God for common sense and George Carlin!
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