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Old 30-09-2010, 17:36   #31
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Originally Posted by GordMay View Post
I'm not Monica however...education is the only long term fix for third world tribal countries!! Education will also fix poverty in the long run. Poverty is the root problem. Education is the enabling technology for civilization.
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Old 30-09-2010, 17:56   #32
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The problem my friend is indentifying the enemy, if a pirate attacks you , are you suggesting you bomb his whole town in retribution!!!.
No, I'm suggesting specific rules for open-water approaches that everyone has to follow. If those rules aren't followed, you then have the right to proactively defend yourself.

It's not easy, I understand that. Don't think I'm naive on the subject. I've been in situations where pirates were appraising the cost/benefit ratio of taking me on. But at some point, we have to have some simple, easy-to-understand rules for international waters contact. And more importantly than that, those rules have to be communicated to anyone going out on the open waters, and they also have to allow for proactive defense in those situations. Within limits, naturally.

The problem is tying the hands of international vessels by disallowing them the means to effectively combat these 'pirates.' If the commercial ships were allowed one medium-range rifle on board and had the protocols to attack any vessel that entered, say, 100 yards without identifying itself properly, there wouldn't be any of this nonsense.

I will admit, I'm a cowboy. I like having my life in my own hands, and that won't sit well with others. For those people, we're probably just better off agreeing to disagree.

And like IdoraKeeper said above, if all else fails then you disallow their country the right to go to open waters.

Oh well, I'll stop posting in this thread. Go ahead and snipe something super witty if you need to get something off your chest I won't fire back.
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Old 30-09-2010, 18:38   #33
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A maritime lawyer wrote an article in the Wall Street Journal summing up the world pirate situation and history of same. Short story:

In the 1700's piracy was out of control, Spain, England and France got together and outlawed it, promoted merchant ships to carry arms and shot to kill pirates. They have no jails on merchant ships, so they were ordered to just go ahead and kill them, no need to bring pirates to trial. Most all ports allowed the guns.

Piracy vanished through the 1800's and first half of the 1900's.

Then in the mid 1900's the UN or similar group of idiots outlawed guns on merchant ships and most ports. $100,000,000 worth of cargo and ship - unarmed - sailing in seclusion? What were they thinking? Obviously they weren't thinking!

Would Brinks Armored Cars drive around with millions in cash and no armed protection? The answer is obvious, then why do merchant ships filled with $10's of millions in cargo travel the world unarmed?

The pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Merchant ships are now starting to hire armed guards for protection. Makes sense to me. What's going to happen to the armed guards when they dock in St. Lucia, are their guns going to be confiscated and/or stolen like yours or mine?
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Old 30-09-2010, 20:18   #34
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I plan to be a pirate and take myself to sea,
For nothing pays near half as much as blatant piracy,
Now here I sit in my own cockpit and nearly naught to drink
It's just past dawn and the gin is gone so I'll change my ways, I think,
The Somali coast where the sun can roast you brown as brown can be
Is where the money comes and goes from blatant piracy,
No more will I try to squeak by on just a pound or two,
When ransoms in the millions can be had by me and you.
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Old 30-09-2010, 20:24   #35
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Old 30-09-2010, 20:36   #36
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All praise the Roman empire for bringing civilization to the natives.

Oh sorry my bad. I meant Praise America for showing (insert non christian, african/middle eastern country here) how to behave as a modern global partner to the other well behaved nations.


Damn sorry that slipped out what I really meant to say is Bad Somalia, Bad Muslims, Good American Capitalist Christians....
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Old 30-09-2010, 20:52   #37
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Yes, it's ransoms in the millions and we never work again,
No more these nasty fishing nets, for us the pirate men,
Oh, you may call us thieving, and you may call us vile,
But just be sure your bank can pay when we've had you awhile.
For in the nasty little room where you're kept neatly stowed,
It's hummus morning, noon and night, it's hummus over load.
So pity us the pirates, we know not what we do,
The mullahs never told us not to be a thieving crew.
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Old 30-09-2010, 21:08   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dame.n.Jess View Post
All praise the Roman empire for bringing civilization to the natives.

Oh sorry my bad. I meant Praise America for showing (insert non christian, african/middle eastern country here) how to behave as a modern global partner to the other well behaved nations.


Damn sorry that slipped out what I really meant to say is Bad Somalia, Bad Muslims, Good American Capitalist Christians....
I agree with you, I am an unabashed liberal in the USA sense. It is simply that there is no excuse for the way these pirates operate. The problem is not political, it's cultural. It will spread if not checked. A world run on Somali rules would look like Mad Max. We can argue all that other stuff over a G&T in the cockpit without a rocket launcher...not so much with pirates.
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Old 01-10-2010, 14:29   #39
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I had no intention to start a political thread, and I had no idea how sensitive the subject really is. What I meant was to poke fun at the fact, because for whatever reason I personally found it amusing. What happened next, including Gord snapping (sorry, Gord, if I ofended you or your personal views), came as a total surprise.

While I was still scratching my head trying to understand what just happened, I received the joke below from one of the friends I made in Florida while cruising two years ago. I am reproducing the joke, while making it very clear that IT IS A JOKE, not a reason to start a(nother) political argument. So please!

"Are you a Democrat, a Republican, or a Southerner?
Here is a little test that will help you decide.
The answer can be found by posing the following question:

You're walking down a
Deserted street with your wife
And two small children.

Suddenly, an Islamic
Terrorist with a huge knife
Comes around the corner,
Locks eyes with you,
Screams obscenities, praises
Allah, raises the knife, and charges at you...

You are carrying a
Kimber 1911 cal. 45 ACP gun, and you are an expert shot.
You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?


.................................................. ..................
THINK AND READ CAREFULLY
THEN SCROLL DOWN:


Democrat's Answer:





Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
  • Does the man look poor or oppressed?
  • Have I ever done anything to him that would inspire him to attack?
  • Could we run away?
  • What does my wife think?
  • What about the kids?
  • Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
  • What does the law say about this situation?
  • Does the pistol have appropriate safety built into it?
  • Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kindof message does this send to society and to my children?
  • Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me?
  • Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
  • If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
  • Should I call 9-1-1?
  • Why is this street so deserted?
  • We need to raise taxes, have paint & weed day.
  • Can we make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
  • I need to debate this with some friends for a few days and try to come to a consensus.
  • This is all so confusing!
.................................................. ...........................

Republican's Answer:

BANG!


.................................................. ......................


Southerner's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG ! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Click..... (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
BANG!
Click " ------end of joke

And it made me realize that, no matter what, there always will be three kinds of people with three kinds of different answers.

Some of you suggested self defense, some of you suggested retaliation, some of you suggested taking another route, some of you suggested the world should help them, some of you suggested the world should mind its own business.

The only fact we seem to be missing is that the pirates are not all the Somalis, and not all Somalis are pirates. We should not brand a nation.

Every country, every town, every religion has good and bad people.

The reason why you and I do not run around robbing people or banks, no matter how poor and hungry we may be, is fear. Fear of the police, fear of jail, fear of parents, fear of whatever, but ultimately fear.

I was reading the other day that down in Florida a couple was arrested for robbing a store clerk at knife point. Their take was $10. They went to jail for it. Who cares if they needed the cash for drugs or for bread? They broke the law and they will be punished. Nobody will come along and say, hey, let me pay for you to get a fishing rod and a boat and then you can go fishing and you'll catch lots of fish and you will sell that fish and you will make enough money so you won't have to rob ever again.

I believe people and goods should be allowed to move freely. I believe nobody should have to go "somewhere else". I believe no pirate wants to be a fisherman , same as, say, no druglord wants to be a farmer or no prostitute wants to be a nun.







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Old 01-10-2010, 14:50   #40
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Not that long ago we saw threads about sailing off Israel closed down as 'political debate' so suggest this one could be next............

Sail safe
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Old 01-10-2010, 14:50   #41
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Sorry, I didn’t think I’d snapped. I thought I was providing the English translation, which you were unable, and (in doing so) putting your headline into perspective.

“Madrid (Sunatimes) The government of Spain has announced that there are plans to increase the AMISOM forces with two thousand more troops in Somalia. Spain hosted the 18th International Somali Contact group meeting in Madrid between 27th and 28th of September.

Spain’s foreign affairs minister Miguel Angel Moratinos, said his government would also participate in supporting the Transitional Federal Government and AMISOM forces with military equipments and other materials.

Angel also said that his government has donated $ 4 million to the TFG to enable it to fight pirates and rebel groups in Somalia. Somali pirates hijack defenseless commercial ships for ransom while militia rebel groups are fighting with the TFG forces to oust the government of Sheriff Sheikh Ahmed.

Spain’s foreign affairs minister Miguel Angel Moratinos, also said that the donation is meant to help Somali pirates denounce the illegal activity and instead engage themselves in fishing as a legal economic activity."
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Old 01-10-2010, 15:06   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sailingmonica View Post
[COLOR=black

Southerner's Answer:

BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG ! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Click..... (Sounds of reloading)
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Did not realize I was a southerner. Thanks for the heads up.

Cheers
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Old 01-10-2010, 15:22   #43
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Nobody will come along and say, hey, let me pay for you to get a fishing rod and a boat and then you can go fishing and you'll catch lots of fish and you will sell that fish and you will make enough money so you won't have to rob ever again.

I believe people and goods should be allowed to move freely. I believe nobody should have to go "somewhere else". I believe no pirate wants to be a fisherman , same as, say, no druglord wants to be a farmer or no prostitute wants to be a nun.

while I in no way condone whats happening in Somalia, The piracy began as a result of massive EU condoned fishing in African waters. Large Mega Trawlers,built and funded in the EU were denied the right to fish in their own national waters, but were given the OK to catch fish in African waters and land them in EU ports ( hence getting EU fish prices). They proceeded to strip the fish stocks from these coasts

They then started trying to hijack these Mega Trawlers to stop them and suddenly found a very lucrative way to earn money, now of course its a self sustaining industry!.


The problems cannot be resolved by force of arms, all that will happen is to supress it while the military forces are maintained there. Eventually we tire of paying for this and the pirates re-appear. Surely Pallistine, Afghanistan, iraq , etc show the futility of armed intervention. ( on a western idea of limited action)

Hence short of turning the whole of Somilia into glass , its has to be sorted at a political level, if thats means "buying fishing rods" then so be it,

I'm actually a fan of of, if you decide to interevene militaryily then absolutle conquest must be followed or nothing at all.


Getting back to yachting, I do beleive that the experience of teh Chandlers, who are still in captivity has shown the priates that kidnapping small boat people is fairly useless. These peoeple arnt dumb.

dave ( sorry thread is veering into pseudo-politics)

Dave
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Old 01-10-2010, 16:30   #44
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Now that I've reading this a while; I think I"ll take up some pirating. I now know your sercets and can plan around them. Maybe we should add this to the how to make money while cruising thread!
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Old 01-10-2010, 17:04   #45
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Yeah we could hold up each other, why limit it to the somialian coast, lots of opportunity in the chesapeake

dave
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