Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-09-2010, 19:51   #16
Registered User
 
NotQuiteLost's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Paradise (better known to most people as: Philippines)
Boat: 65' Custom Steel Ketch
Posts: 322
Images: 4
The solution is to allow everyone to protect themselves whilst on the open waters, and punish those who violate others' safety with absolute God-like retribution. Fire and brimstone, and all that.

Outside of that, you can't fix a society you don't understand. Sometimes, even understanding it won't help because you simply won't agree with the way they think or want to run their country. Just try to stay out of each other's business inside their own borders, but when in 'neutral' territory the rules should allow for people to defend themselves proactively, if necessary.
NotQuiteLost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2010, 20:53   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2010
Boat: Far East Mariner 40
Posts: 303
I agree with NotQuiteLost on this one. Very well stated.
__________________
I do all my own stunts.
vintageray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2010, 22:06   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2
Very well put!
vessels7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-09-2010, 23:45   #19
Registered User
 
swagman's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Winter land based UK New Forest. Summer months away. Making the transition from sail to power this year - scary stuff.
Boat: Super Van Craft 1320 Power Yacht
Posts: 2,175
Images: 10
Send a message via Skype™ to swagman
As I understand it, piracy in Somalia is still one of the best ways locals can make a living. And not many outsiders have a real inclination to stop them.

There are three factions in Somalia. The weak west supported government, a set of strong warlords / pirates, and the even harder Islamic fundamentalists.

If that last group got the chance they'd stop the piracy tomorrow, but what they'd replace it with does not suit our western world. If the west really intervenend and wiped out the warlords / pirates, the others would fill the vacuum created.........call me a cynic but it could seem our govt's don't want to risk that change.

Luckily there are many places to sail in this world, and it is easy enough to avoid the region until either the fundamentists take over or the western world discovers enough new minerals to justify real intervention.

Until then I am afraid not much will change. Sadly.

JOHN
__________________
Don't take life too seriously. No ones going to make it out alive......Go see our blog at https://www.sailblogs.com/member/yachtswagman/
swagman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 00:30   #20
Registered User
 
anjou's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Malvernshire, on the sunny side of the hill.
Boat: 50' steel canal and river cruiser
Posts: 1,905

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotQuiteLost View Post
The solution is to allow everyone to protect themselves whilst on the open waters, and punish those who violate others' safety with absolute God-like retribution. Fire and brimstone, and all that.

Outside of that, you can't fix a society you don't understand. Sometimes, even understanding it won't help because you simply won't agree with the way they think or want to run their country. Just try to stay out of each other's business inside their own borders, but when in 'neutral' territory the rules should allow for people to defend themselves proactively, if necessary.
Thats a bit 'Wild West' and is ok to the point where your weapons arnt as powerful as their weapons. If you carry weapons aboard and are cruising from one part of the world to another, that then causes other problems with port authorities. 10 Somali fishermen with AKs will take more protecting against than a pump and .38 can provide.
__________________
www.amy-artimis.blogspot.com
anjou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 01:13   #21
Registered User
 
NotQuiteLost's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Paradise (better known to most people as: Philippines)
Boat: 65' Custom Steel Ketch
Posts: 322
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjou View Post
Thats a bit 'Wild West' and is ok to the point where your weapons arnt as powerful as their weapons. If you carry weapons aboard and are cruising from one part of the world to another, that then causes other problems with port authorities. 10 Somali fishermen with AKs will take more protecting against than a pump and .38 can provide.
Hey, don't get me wrong. If someone rolls up, armed to the teeth with bad intentions and you're not able to get away, you're in big trouble. And as a solo sailor, I can relay just how it feels to have a heavily crewed boat swinging back and forth in your wake, sizing up the risk/reward situation. Thankfully, my rail is about six feet off the water

I understand there's no easy solution to this thing. But I get so sick of hearing people (nobody I've seen here, to be clear) talk about disarming the world cruisers first. I mean, we're the people who should be disarmed LAST, if at all.

Oh well, it's a hot button issue, for sure. Also, as you suggest, it's not a simple question. I just rebel when it's suggested that I shouldn't be allowed to defend myself.
NotQuiteLost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 03:21   #22
S/V rubber ducky
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: heading "south"
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 20,362
Is this thread about sailing/boating anymore?
sailorboy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 05:51   #23
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,012
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Is this thread about sailing/boating anymore?
No.


Do the Somalis have "the right to bear arms?"

David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 14:25   #24
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Quote:
The solution is to allow everyone to protect themselves whilst on the open waters, and punish those who violate others' safety with absolute God-like retribution. Fire and brimstone, and all that.
The problem my friend is indentifying the enemy, if a pirate attacks you , are you suggesting you bomb his whole town in retribution!!!.

Dave
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 15:22   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 2,050
There are more than one of these places on the planet. They export the chaos and desperation they live with on a daily basis. They believe in the solutions that work for them....because they work. They have embraced these things and they are not sitting around waiting to be rescued from their "fate". The effective thing to do is reduce their capability to solve their problems using their current methods. Stone age problem solving should occur in stone age conditions.
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 15:31   #26
Nearly an old salt
 
goboatingnow's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Lefkas Marina ,Greece
Boat: Bavaria 36
Posts: 22,801
Images: 3
Quote:
Stone age problem solving should occur in stone age conditions.
do you mean the US marines should club them to death or what???

dave
goboatingnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 15:34   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Kitsap Penninsula, WA
Boat: C&C Mega 30
Posts: 94
In the epilogue of a copy of Mark Bowden's Blackhawk Down:

"It was a watershed," said one State Department official, who asked not to be named because his insight runs so counter to out current foreign policy agenda. "The idea used to be that terrible countries were terrible because good, decent, innocent people were being oppressed by evil thuggish leaders. Somalia changed all that. Here you have a country where just about everyone is caught up in hatred and fighting. You stop and old lady on the street and ask her if she wants peace, and she'll say, yes, of course, I pray for it daily. All the things you'd expect her to say. Then ask her if she is willing to for her clan to share power with another in order to have that peace, and she'll say, 'With those murderers and thieves? I'd die first.' They want victory. They want power. Men, women, old and young. Somalia was the experience that taught us that people in these places bear much of the responsibility for things being the way they are. The hatred and the killing continues because they want it to. Or because they don't want peace enough to stop it."

Sitting back in the world that I live in, with the values on life and respect for others that I have and I beleive share with most if not all of the rest of you reading this, it's hard to imagine a place in the world like this, with people like this. But how else can you explain it?
wannago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 15:48   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Port Ludlow Wa
Boat: Makela,Ingrid38,Idora
Posts: 2,050
Quote:
Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
do you mean the US marines should club them to death or what???

dave

Certainly not. But nation building activities should be off the table entirely. Simply remove the entire Somali ability to go to sea in any manner whatsover. Whatver means they choose to use should be dealt with and removed if it has consequences outside their borders.
IdoraKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 16:15   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: La Plaine - Dominica
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38 feet - YANN I
Posts: 14
Waou , What a bright idea ? Any others like this ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stark View Post
Except the aid we currently give them ends up in the wrong hands:

BBC News - Contractors divert Somalia aid, UN report says

I'm not generally a fan of war, but for $3 million, maybe you buy 3 cruise missiles and sink 3 suspected mother ships while in port. I bet that goes farther than giving them $3 mill to buy RPGs for their "fishing economy".


"Even worse, WFP food aid and profits from it are said to end up in the hands of armed groups, including Islamist militants and other armed groups undermining the weak Somali government. Profits from the food aid trade were even used to buy arms, the report indicated."

from: afrol News - UN confirms Somalia food aid corruption
Maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-09-2010, 16:18   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: La Plaine - Dominica
Boat: Lagoon 380, 38 feet - YANN I
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Lucas View Post
Is this thread about sailing/boating anymore?
`
I agree with you. You are right.
There is one thing I will never understand. Why do people want to see other countries look alike and behave like theirs? Is this what they understand by "travelling" , "meeting others"...
You do not like Somalis. Go elsewhere. End of the discussion.
Maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Spain

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
How to Avoid Somali Pirates ? beowulfborealis Indian Ocean & Red Sea 162 06-02-2013 10:49
Solution to Somali Pirates? HobieFan General Sailing Forum 56 10-12-2009 18:55
Interesting perspective on Somali pirates jackdale Indian Ocean & Red Sea 25 07-01-2009 03:28
French yacht seized by Somali pirates dennisjay Cruising News & Events 41 21-06-2008 14:42

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 00:17.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.