Spain and Ebola: Discuss

[BandB]

In many ways Medical care is as much an art as a science. There are hundreds of conditions we have no idea the cause of and have no cure. in some cases we have treatments to manage them. Many conditions present very similar symptoms. Also, things taught 20 years ago have been long ago contradicted by new information. Much of what we present today as fact will be disproved in the next five years.

Still, there are issues that aren't acceptable. Many respected hospitals have been put in probationary status and funds suspended. Medicare actually playing a role in clamping down on standards. One of the single biggest problems is patients returning.

It's ironic that the group in Dallas now put in charge of their Ebola management and treatment was only recently removed from a probationary status for poor handling of infectious diseases. Now, the argument is that by making changes to get out of that status, they've learned a lot to help them.

And this isn't just a US problem or a few countries. The waiting times in ER's in many places are outrageous. Something contradictory about "Emergency" and waiting 8 hours before you see a doctor.

I would think in the past couple of weeks there has been a huge amount of learning and self examination not just in the hospitals involved but those everywhere wondering how they would have handled things.

I hope because we've had limited patients in the US so far we don't lose site of the fact there have been 5,000 deaths this year and many health care providers have died.

Some states have already stated new regulations for those returning to this country. Nina Pham and Amber Vinson did get outstanding treatment. Duncan, being the first in Dallas, showed they weren't prepared.

One last thing. Voluntary quarantine. Doesn't work. I think Ms. Vinson asked all the right questions and I excuse her trip far before I excuse the NBC employees who needed pastries and coffee. I think too some people don't think. The doctor returning to New York probably is thinking right now something like "how could I be so stupid." If he'd been thinking, he wouldn't have exposed others, especially his wife and kid. Now, is stricter quarantine overreacting? I don't think those worrying right now if they were exposed or could get it would say it is.

The whole over-reacting vs. head buried in sand thing gets a bit crazy as people argue. It can be balanced. We don't want everyone panicking and living in fear. Most people don't currently have any risk. For many who do, that risk in minimal. But we do want our medical community over-reacting so they're fully prepared to handle anything. Flu season is going to scramble things. Facilities get bombarded by those with the flu. But they all have to ask other questions now, including malaria and ebola related questions. Doctors can't assume it's "just flu." That puts people at undue risk if wrong.

I'm also proud that as a people we do respond with such concern to those like these health care workers. It shows a good side of humanity in this country when often we see so much ugliness. I'm even proud of the treatment given Nina's dog, Bentley. People have rallied around Bentley too.

I'd also like to point out that Paul Allen is donating $100 million to the Ebola cause.

Ebola is an ongoing development. None of us know what will happen next and in the future. I personally think it will get worse before getting better, but I also believe we will combat it effectively enough to keep the epidemic from raging out of control.

[hellosailor]

Coops, 200k per year is the low side of the numbers I keep seeing in the US. About half of those are from drug errors, and the rest from hospital-acquired infections, surgical complications, falls out of the bed, and everything else that would and could not have happened if the patient had been properly supervised and treated.

Yes, it IS a big number. But five years ago? Hospitals mainly did no checking for c.diff. Did no disinfection between patients on stethoscopes or blood oximeters. And today, they STILL use the same blood pressure cuff on an entire wing/ward in many places. Despite express recommendations to assign one disposable one per patient and not pass the germs around.

Now that Medicare is cutting payments back for patients that have to be re-hospitalized after hospital errors, more of them are starting to pay attention to the problem. But patients dying? Nah, that's business as usual. Yes, even here in America.

They also bitched and screamed "IT COSTS TOO MUCH!" when they were being prodded to use bar codes. Now? Every patient wears one, every med dispensed is scanned and checked. At least, in the places I've seen in the last few years. Funny thing...those meds errors just don't happen when you do this.

I had a relative admitted to a facility with c.diff. about 4 years ago. Put in a double room. I had a short private discussion with the administrator and repeated the words "quarantine" and "infectious disease" a few times. That double room became a single room before the shift ended, and a big stack of disposables and hazard warnings got put up on the door. Ebola? They're just getting to hear the same magic words from CDC now. Kinda "No habla quarantine" from too many places, still.

They just. don't. get. it.

[BandB]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

I had a relative admitted to a facility with c.diff. about 4 years ago. Put in a double room..

For reasons such as those you mentioned plus many more, most new hospitals in the US are being built with single rooms only.

[SaltyMonkey]

Its the russkies

Ebola crisis rekindles concerns about secret research in Russian military labs - The Washington Post

[DeepFrz]

Oh my god...you mean Russia has secret research labs...too?

[JRM]

Just for you folks...

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[Katiusha]

Atoll thank you for posting news abouts Ebola and Spain on this thread. Regardless of the thread drift, I would be very grateful if you continued to post anything related to the original thread topic. Ty!

Signed: cruisers on limited internet currently in Spain with a toddler so maybe a bit more paranoid than general public.


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[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by JRM

Just for you folks...

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[sneuman]

What a wonderful parade of paranoids this thread has revealed.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by sneuman

What a wonderful parade of paranoids this thread has revealed.

Wow, that hasn't been said, yet. Thank you Captain Redundant.

[JRM]

Originally Posted by sneuman

What a wonderful parade of paranoids this thread has revealed.

If you think I'm paranoid, you should meet my new friend Trelly. Here we are hanging out at work yesterday...

JRM

-- I guess annual suit recertification testing fell on a fortuitous day this year...

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[GordMay]

Originally Posted by sneuman

What a wonderful parade of paranoids this thread has revealed.

My doctor reckons I'm paranoid.
He didn't say it, but I know he's thinking it.

[s/v Beth]

Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean your not out to get me.

[K_V_B]

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[BandB]

When it comes to infectious diseases a certain amount of paranoia is a healthy thing. If it leads you to flu vaccines, leads you to avoid those with the flu, leads you to wash your hands or use sanitizer more, then it's healthy.

On the other hand too much paranoia can paralyze one with fear. You'd then never go out in public.

In health care if paranoia leads health care workers to protect themselves better then that's positive. If it leads them to be scared to perform their duties and leave their profession then that's negative.

Exposing others is another part of it. Something as simple as a cold can be life threatening to the wrong person and flu definitely is. The elderly. Those in hospitals. Those on immunosuppressants.

If I'd been a health care worker with ebola patients and came home to my family, as much as I'd want to be with all of them and get out and go see my friends, the thought of possibly passing ebola to my family would give me a bit of paranoia. I'd check my temperature several times a day, look for symptoms, and I'd spend my first 21 days in a separate room.

When I was young I'd go to work regardless of how sick I was. I went with flu. I worked with pneumonia. It was unhealthy for me, but that's my choice. My wife put a stop to me doing that. I thank her for that. She didn't do it by convincing me I wasn't fit to work. She did it by guilting me into thinking of how many others I was exposing and might be passing the cold or flu on to. I wondered how many I'd given it to before. So that bit of paranoia made me more considerate of others.

A few years ago one of the workers in our office, a 50 year old man, got Chickenpox. Immediately a notice was sent throughout the office. Most older people there had chickenpox as a child and younger ones had the vaccine. Fortunately, the only other person without immunity to it was out of the office for the week before he was diagnosed. But chickenpox can be very dangerous for adults.

The first step to having a reasonable and managed amount of paranoia is education. Know the facts. Keep perspective.