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Old 11-10-2014, 13:52   #61
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Its good to be King, or the government anyway.

I will be in Madrid in just over a week. Will be interesting to see the situation first hand.

INEXPERIENCED and newly-qualified nurses were recruited for dealing with Ebola patients and threatened with the loss of their career if they refused, reports a regional healthcare personnel board.

The Madrid Area North Healthcare Workers' Board, which covers the La Paz University Hospital – upon which the Carlos III depends – says it was given 'orders' to draft in brand-new professionals straight out of college on the nurses' jobseekers' register.

And existing nurses were to be threatened with disciplinary proceedings or sacking if they refused to carry out care duties for Ebola patients, even if they insisted they did not have the knowledge or experience necessary.
It is not clear whether these orders came from the regional, or the national, ministry of health.

Newly-qualified doctors and nurses, among other professionals such as teachers, are entered on registers with a 'points' system and, when jobs arise – permanent or temporary – are contacted in order of those with the highest points first.

If they refuse to take up the post, they are normally removed permanently from the list, effectively ending their chances of working in the profession – a potentially difficult situation if they are forced to give up a permanent job in another field to fill in for sick leave for a few weeks halfway across the country at a day's notice.

To this end, whilst gaining experience and points and awaiting their coveted full-time permanent job, brand-new professionals will take anything they are offered to ensure they stay on the register, known as a bolsa de trabajo.
According to the Madrid Area North Healthcare Workers' Board, medical authorities were relying on this when seeking extra staff to take on the uninviting task of treating Ebola patients.

Confident that the recently-qualified would be prepared to do almost anything to create a good impression, the Board was ordered to make a bee-line for these nurses and, if they refused to take on the role, threaten to axe them from the register.

And the Board says authorities gave them instructions to threaten to fire or dish out written warnings to any existing healthcare workers who tried to refuse to take part in the care of patients with the deadly haemorrhagic virus.

The need for so many extra workers for the Ebola emergency has been partly due to mass redundancies at the Carlos III hospital, the only one in the country which specialises in tropical and infectious diseases.

Funding and staff cuts were made in May, two months after the Ebola epidemic had been reported in west Africa, despite authorities being aware of many Spanish citizens residing in or visiting these nations.

The Board expressed its 'terror' at the thought of staff with limited know-how – and no additional training aside from a 15-minute briefing – being exposed to the deadly threat of Ebola.

Auxiliary nurse Teresa Romero believes she caught it through touching her face with her gloves on whilst taking off her overalls after changing the bedsheets and incontinence pads for missionary Manuel Garcνa Viejo.
One of the nurses due to treat Teresa said she had not even been taught how to put on and take off her overalls beforehand.

The full-body suit used in Spain is said to fall far short of World Health Organisation (WHO) standards.
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Old 11-10-2014, 14:01   #62
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Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by weavis View Post
Its good to be King, or the government anyway.



I will be in Madrid in just over a week. Will be interesting to see the situation first hand.



INEXPERIENCED and newly-qualified nurses were recruited for dealing with Ebola patients and threatened with the loss of their career if they refused, reports a regional healthcare personnel board.



The Madrid Area North Healthcare Workers' Board, which covers the La Paz University Hospital – upon which the Carlos III depends – says it was given 'orders' to draft in brand-new professionals straight out of college on the nurses' jobseekers' register.



And existing nurses were to be threatened with disciplinary proceedings or sacking if they refused to carry out care duties for Ebola patients, even if they insisted they did not have the knowledge or experience necessary.

It is not clear whether these orders came from the regional, or the national, ministry of health.



Newly-qualified doctors and nurses, among other professionals such as teachers, are entered on registers with a 'points' system and, when jobs arise – permanent or temporary – are contacted in order of those with the highest points first.



If they refuse to take up the post, they are normally removed permanently from the list, effectively ending their chances of working in the profession – a potentially difficult situation if they are forced to give up a permanent job in another field to fill in for sick leave for a few weeks halfway across the country at a day's notice.



To this end, whilst gaining experience and points and awaiting their coveted full-time permanent job, brand-new professionals will take anything they are offered to ensure they stay on the register, known as a bolsa de trabajo.

According to the Madrid Area North Healthcare Workers' Board, medical authorities were relying on this when seeking extra staff to take on the uninviting task of treating Ebola patients.



Confident that the recently-qualified would be prepared to do almost anything to create a good impression, the Board was ordered to make a bee-line for these nurses and, if they refused to take on the role, threaten to axe them from the register.



And the Board says authorities gave them instructions to threaten to fire or dish out written warnings to any existing healthcare workers who tried to refuse to take part in the care of patients with the deadly haemorrhagic virus.



The need for so many extra workers for the Ebola emergency has been partly due to mass redundancies at the Carlos III hospital, the only one in the country which specialises in tropical and infectious diseases.



Funding and staff cuts were made in May, two months after the Ebola epidemic had been reported in west Africa, despite authorities being aware of many Spanish citizens residing in or visiting these nations.



The Board expressed its 'terror' at the thought of staff with limited know-how – and no additional training aside from a 15-minute briefing – being exposed to the deadly threat of Ebola.



Auxiliary nurse Teresa Romero believes she caught it through touching her face with her gloves on whilst taking off her overalls after changing the bedsheets and incontinence pads for missionary Manuel Garcνa Viejo.

One of the nurses due to treat Teresa said she had not even been taught how to put on and take off her overalls beforehand.



The full-body suit used in Spain is said to fall far short of World Health Organisation (WHO) standards.

Interesting. And remember how the hospital initially insisted she'd followed all protocols? That touched off a lot of speculation that maybe there were new and unknown modes of transmission. It's a classic case of trusting an anecdotal piece of evidence (the nurse's word she'd not screwed up) over something much more rigorous, namely scientific testing which has shown that it's only transmitted in a few tactile ways. Although certainly there's some things about this virus that are still baffling but it's basic method of transmission has been known for decades.


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Old 11-10-2014, 14:28   #63
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pirate Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Loada Bollox Mate... sail closer than 25 miles of the W African coast in a W'ly and you'll get Ebola.. don't believe these 'Nay-sayer's'...
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Old 11-10-2014, 14:32   #64
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Some Ebola experts worry virus may spread more easily than assumed - LA Times

Quote:
"Ebola is not transmitted by the air. It is not an airborne infection," said Dr. Edward Goodman of Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, where the Liberian patient remains in critical condition.

Yet some scientists who have long studied Ebola say such assurances are premature — and they are concerned about what is not known about the strain now on the loose. It is an Ebola outbreak like none seen before, jumping from the bush to urban areas, giving the virus more opportunities to evolve as it passes through multiple human hosts.

Dr. C.J. Peters, who battled a 1989 outbreak of the virus among research monkeys housed in Virginia and who later led the CDC's most far-reaching study of Ebola's transmissibility in humans, said he would not rule out the possibility that it spreads through the air in tight quarters.
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Old 11-10-2014, 14:32   #65
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatman61 View Post
Loada Bollox Mate... sail closer than 25 miles of the W African coast in a W'ly and you'll get Ebola.. don't believe these 'Nay-sayer's'...
I have limited carry on for the plane. So Im taking my Foulies and me dads old WW11 respirator. I think the hospital will lend me a pair of gloves.

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Old 11-10-2014, 15:03   #66
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Check out the pic of me on my profile and you'll see I've got nothing to fear! I bet I could teach them a thing or two on suiting up. For instance, why wasn't that nurse triple gloved with a tape seal on the base layer, to allow multiple changeout of the top layer without affecting base layer? Suitup 101!
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Old 12-10-2014, 00:06   #67
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Here's some well addressed info: Ebola virus facts
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:32   #68
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Oct 12 (Reuters) - A Texas health worker who provided care for the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the United States has tested positive for the deadly virus in a preliminary examination, a state health official said on Sunday.
UPDATE 1-Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters

seems like the best policy for suspected cases might be for them to stay at home,and have a fully suited up doctor/team visit,rather than walking in to a busy emergency room,and exposing health care workers not suited up properly.

BBC News - Ebola: Health care worker tests positive at Texas hospital
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:40   #69
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
Oct 12 (Reuters) - A Texas health worker who provided care for the first person diagnosed with Ebola in the United States has tested positive for the deadly virus in a preliminary examination, a state health official said on Sunday.
UPDATE 1-Texas health care worker tests positive for Ebola | Agricultural Commodities | Reuters
"The nurse was involved in Duncan's second visit to the hospital, when he was admitted for treatment, and was wearing protective gear as prescribed by the CDC: gown, gloves, mask and shield, Varga said."

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Old 12-10-2014, 09:43   #70
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

Looking at the entire Dallas situation and all the missteps and now the nurse, it reminds me of one very harsh reality. There is a lot more we don't know about Ebola than we do know. While I understand not wanting to panic people, I have a strong distaste for the false reassurances as well. The Dallas nurse was not even in the circle of 100 they considered to be at risk from the patient. A firm diagnosis of Ebola is often not possible until the third day of symptoms and by then many have sought help, been sent home or otherwise not quarantined.

We have depended on a travel screening that asked one if they'd been exposed. Let's see, if I'm in Liberia, think I've been exposed, but want to get home to my family and what I feel would be better medical care, will I tell the truth?

I liken this somewhat to when H1N1 hit in terms of knowledge and dealing with it. The vaccine was months away. The big difference is that most people didn't die from it and at least 50%, perhaps more, do die from Ebola. And even of those who survive, many experience severe damage to their bodies and organs.

I know there is tremendous work being done to find solutions and treatments as well as develop a vaccine. But meanwhile I think we need to be even more apprehensive and if that's even on the alarmist side then so be it. It's one thing when we do learn all the facts, but that hasn't happened yet. I said firmly after the death in Dallas that there is no way I'd go to that hospital now. Yet, all the reassurances were it was completely safe. Now a nurse there has gotten it. So, obviously it wasn't completely safe. Any impression given that it would be contained to the one person was speculative optimism. Now, it's two in Dallas, so do we think it won't be three?

This is a scary situation and I really don't want people calming me to say otherwise when they don't know all there is to know yet. They will, but we're not there. We talk about the virus in wet blood versus dried blood. We talk about requiring bodily fluids and not just touch, although we do admit as it worsens, sweat becomes a dangerous bodily fluid. We've checked a lot of surfaces and found them not to be contaminated. On the other hand we've found things such as the fact it survives in semen up to 82 days. So in what other ways does it survive and transmit more than we'd think?

An interesting side case to the Dallas situation. A policeman who had been in the first victim's home and lived in Frisco, TX and nearby prosperous community went to urgent care. They were fairly certain he didn't have ebola. However, they launched into their program for highly contagious diseases and immediately took action including shutting the facility down and moving him. Turned out he doesn't have ebola but their actions were so much more with a sense of urgency and concern than what was seen from the Dallas hospital and authorities. Had those in Dallas responded the same way, the victim might be alive today and the risk to others would have been significantly less.
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Old 12-10-2014, 09:56   #71
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

An interesting side case to the Dallas situation. A policeman who had been in the first victim's home and lived in Frisco, TX and nearby prosperous community went to urgent care. They were fairly certain he didn't have ebola. However, they launched into their program for highly contagious diseases and immediately took action including shutting the facility down and moving him. Turned out he doesn't have ebola but their actions were so much more with a sense of urgency and concern than what was seen from the Dallas hospital and authorities. Had those in Dallas responded the same way, the victim might be alive today and the risk to others would have been significantly less.

quote

problem is on what scale can you do that before the system becomes overwhelmed?
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:00   #72
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

The Dallas nurse was isolated when the symptoms first appeared before diagnosis of Ebola. The ER at that hospital is now closed. We don't know why they did that but there is obviously a concern with the ER. CDC has already blamed the nurse for not following protocol.

The hospital in question is (or was) an excellent facility. Those who think this was some backwater clinic are wrong. The assumption that the same thing can't happen in any large hospital is also probably wrong.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:13   #73
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

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CDC has already blamed the nurse for not following protoco
Not so. They have blamed no one from what I understand from reading the news reports. They have just stated that they believe that protocol was not followed. They didn't say what part of the protocol or who didn't follow it.

WHO and CDC keep saying that it is a difficult virus to catch and yet many health care providers have died in this outbreak. I don't think it is quite as difficult to catch as they are letting on.
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:40   #74
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

For those who might be interested.

I use Ultra violet sterilisers in my clinic. Small ones and large ones. Small ones for sterilising bottles and instruments and large ones for going over the rooms. I use U.V. wands to sterilise most things.

I have used U.V. for 10 years along with other sanitation methods. My conclusion is that it does the job, and I would not be without U.V.

Virus are made inactive by U.V........

Yes, it makes the Ebola Virus inert.

Here is a commercial unit.. I post this in the interest of information and not as an advert to purchase. I cant afford one of these but it gives you an idea of what it can do.

Ultraviolet light robot kills Ebola in two minutes; why doesn't every hospital have one of these? - NaturalNews.com
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Old 12-10-2014, 10:43   #75
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Re: Spain and Ebola: Discuss

From what we who live here are hearing this morning the CDC is launching an investigation into what protocol was broken. They are not entertaining the idea that the protocol or equipment could be at fault. The nurse was allegedly part of the dialysis team. That's where they suspect the "mistake" was made. It's pretty clear they are blaming the nurse.

The CDC said today that removing the protective gear is "hard" to do properly. Everything that has happened so far we were told beforehand couldn't happen. Now we find out it's really hard to follow the protocol. We're all wondering what else we've been told that will turn out to be wrong.
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