Spain and Ebola: Discuss

[crazyoldboatguy]

Hard to accept - uh, no. Hard to believe.

That's a long, slow fall. The embargo only being just over 50 years old. It must have been a wunderkind in 1960 to be where it is today. :roll eyes:

I am also not sure how sending a lot of doctors to help in Africa is related to how the medical system compares to that of the US. Apples to ball bearings.

[hellosailor]

"Cuba has a very respected medical system "
Yes, and the sole and leading Cat1 trauma hospital in Cuba is....Miami Jackson, in Florida.

Coincidentally the same facility that is used by Columbia and Venezuela, among other nations.

Either way, Cuba is what the Cubans wanted. When Castro led the revolutionaries and threw out Batista, he celebrated by telling his people to surrender their arms, they would never need to take them up again. They did, and funny thing, they don't. Just as he said.

And all the US mobsters re-invested in Vegas instead.

But meanwhile, the $20 a month that the average Cuban doctor gets paid, is that a good wage in Cuba? Or a bad one? I'm really curious to know.

[DeepFrz]

That's a long, slow fall. The embargo only being just over 50 years old. It must have been a wunderkind in 1960 to be where it is today. :roll eyes:

Oh come on. The embargo really didn't cripple the economy until after the fall of the Soviet Union. Until then they probably had one of the finest medical systems in the world.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Oh come on. The embargo really didn't cripple the economy until after the fall of the Soviet Union. Until then they probably had one of the finest medical systems in the world.

It was about as good as the medical system it had under Batista... Cuba was a developed nation once. It's the only country in the world to have less TV stations, less newspapers, less radio stations, less telephones and less cars than in the 50ies...
It had a good medical system in the 50ies. They managed to destroy it (Guevarra threatened to execute all the doctors, guess what they did...) and then had to rebuild it. They managed not quite to get in to the same league, but through massaging the statistics they seem to pull everyone's wool over their eyes.
Remember, Castro, when he needs medical attention, goes to Spain...

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

The problems with rating the health systems of any particular country are the standards that are applied. Take infant mortality for instance. When compared to other countries, the infant mortality rate of the US seems rather abysmal given what one would expect. However, the Europeans, as in other countries, define infant death in a way very different than in the US. It skews the stats to the point of meaninglessness.

It's not the definition of infant mortality. The main issue in the US is the high number of teenage pregnancies. This leads to more underweight babies.
Now that has nothing to do with the quality of the health system.

But it is true that when comparing small differences (like infant mortality in industrialised nations) the statistical methods become important too.

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

Total crap. Cuba has a very respected medical system and they have done a great deal to train doctors and other medical professions in the third world. When I sailed to Cuba I met a number of americans there who could not afford treatment in the US.

And still Castro (and others who have the option) go elsewhere.

It is rated only slightly lower than the US medical system which is 37th in the world.

You are correct though in that Spain is rated number 7 in the world, far above the US or Cuba.

The US is a big country. Big countries will, on any ranking, tend to score more towards the median. It's easier for a small country to score in the top in something. It has all to do with sample sizes. Statistics.
The richest countries in Europe are all small countries. But so are the poorest...

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

False sense of security.

This ain't over by a long shot.

Watch what happens.

This attitude is what I find bizarre, a desire to wish havoc, in order to justify ones viewpoint.

Ebola is a function of health policy ( or lack of it), taken in itself, its neither particularly contagious or particularly deadly to people with access to modern medical facilities. Spanish flue killed between 50 - 100 million people.


we need to keep a sense of perspective. Im reading a news item this week that people are asking those that cough on the subway in NY, have they got Ebola. I mean kets get a grip!


dave

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

This attitude is what I find bizarre, a desire to wish havoc, in order to justify ones viewpoint.

dave

Excuse me? That was totally insulting. Did i WISH this on anyone? Where did you SEE I say that.

BACK OFF!!





Diseases go dormant and you want to break out the champagne and bless everyone with a superior wave of the hand and declare everything is now cured and free.

History has always shown otherwise. Be on your toes!

[K_V_B]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

we need to keep a sense of perspective. Im reading a news item this week that people are asking those that cough on the subway in NY, have they got Ebola. I mean kets get a grip!

More people are killed while accidentally setting their pijama's on fire. So don't wear a pijama!

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by K_V_B

More people are killed while accidentally setting their pijama's on fire. So don't wear a pijama!

I dont. I don't wear underwear either

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by SaltyMonkey

Excuse me? That was totally insulting. Did i WISH this on anyone? Where did you SEE I say that.

BACK OFF!!





Diseases go dormant and you want to break out the champagne and bless everyone with a superior wave of the hand and declare everything is now cured and free.

History has always shown otherwise. Be on your toes!

Nope, You are party of the great unwashed thats hyping this story, because of the " if it bleeds it leads" media attitude. Ebola is only good news if its "scares " people. Part of the group that are ignoring facts and spreading sensationalism.

The fact is every outbreak in any sort of country with even a half assed medical program can contain and eradicate Ebola. I have friends in MSF, their worry is the poor countries of Africa, where hygiene is unknown, and huge amounts of questionable ,medical and other practices are spreading the disease, in these places the standard of organised medicine is appaling and the disease is rampant.

You're more likely to get AiDS then ebola


It doesn't matter then ebola break out here and there in certain countries, its treatable, containable and vaccines are now being tested. Tubereculosis is still a disease here, but so is AIDs, ebola is just another one.

[SaltyMonkey]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Nope, You are party of the great unwashed thats hyping this story, because of the " if it bleeds it leads" media attitude. Ebola is only good news if its "scares " people. Part of the group that are ignoring facts and spreading sensationalism.

Nobody's hyping anything for pleasure or for some hidden agenda, for sport or audience ratings.

The facts keep changing. The "MAN" can't be trusted. There are no facts when the unknowns are unknown, or when the facts don't prove out. What we have is "ooooh don't worrrrrry" from blind optimists, meanwhile countries are banning entry and mandatory 21 day isolation and issues of sneezy catch all cans from WHO and BIG predictions of new cases by EOY. The messages are mixed. Why trust the facts? What facts? Which so called vetted facts are lying?

Given all that, all you can do is wait, and stay prudent. But to put your head up your….umm….in the sand and pretend everything is hunky dory doodle dow day, is the cop out. That's the enemy. That always proved the path to disaster through history.

[waggy]

Do foreigners seriously go to Cuba for their excellent health care?

If you're gonna run a political narrative why not go all out. For example: Cubans are So healthy and awesome they don't even need health care!

[goboatingnow]

Nobody's hyping anything for pleasure or for some hidden agenda, for sport or audience ratings.

Actually, thats whats happening exactly. There is a tiny contained risk to the western world, yet to believe the media , millions of us " ar go-na die"

Ebola is not a new disease, much is known about it. There is a considerable amount of scientific knowledge. Of course because it was ( is ) confined to certain parts of ( darkest) Africa, we haven't bothered our backsides to cure it, no money in that of course.

Funny when it threatens the west , hey presto," were testing a vaccine", cause there lots of money in vaccinating westerners - funny that.

Some countries are undertaking screening, some are not, most EU countries are not, because modern health system can control and handle the disease.

In my opinion, some of this disease is mixed up with race and immigration as much as a meaningful health issue for the West. Personally I think the winter vomiting bug is more worrisome.

What I don't understand , is this persistent cry from certain sectors, much like your own, that " we haven't seen anything yet" , " this could be the new plaque" ( was there an old one) etc etc. 24hour media peddles fear and trades on mis-information and the "bogeyman outside the door", lock up you children folks, the EBOLAMAN is out tonight,

Im meeting my mate whose just returned form Freetown, he's with MSF, for a beer this weekend, ( cough cough sneeze)


But hey, lets buy loads of guns and head to michigan.!!

Dave

[goboatingnow]

A ‘Dark Winter’ of Ebola terrorism? - The Washington Post

QED - the great scare connect ebola and islamists ......