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Old 08-10-2009, 15:21   #76
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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
This is true. I'ts very dissapointing to anchor off a pristine beach and find cigarette butts .

Even the top of Ayers rock was covered in cigarette butts.
Yea, so true.

Why is it that most smokers have no thought for the environment. I get truly annoyed when driving along the highway in BUSH FIRE season, when the car in front throws a cigarette butt out thats still alight. I'm sure a lot of bush fires are caused by careless smokers. Beaches, harbours, bloody butts everywhere.

So those that smoke thats why I want you to stop.

Now you got me going.

Glenn
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Old 08-10-2009, 15:35   #77
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One alternative to pot (illegal) and tobacco (deadly and addictive) is ethnobotanicals, check out bouncingbearbotanicals.com
They have many smoking blends that contain no nicotine, are legal, and get you a buzz. The trend was started by a native american that started marketing herbs that were used in tribal ceremonies (the peace pipe). There's a good range of effects and potencies. From mild buzz (prayer smoke) to the need a babysitter heavy duty trip (salvia divinorum 20x). Some would be useful for quitting cigarettes. After the first three days its mostly the ingrained habit of lighting up. The shakes sweats are done. Warning some states have illegalized the salvia.
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Old 08-10-2009, 16:00   #78
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That smoking is a curse goes without saying. I know no one that smokes who does not regret it and none that would not happily quite, if possible—although for some it is a practical impossibility due to the vagaries of neurophysiology. Accordingly the vituperation heaped on smokers hardly seems appropriate

I began smoking in the military—during my tour in Viet Nam—at the suggestion of a Battalion Surgeon who believed “having a smoke” was preferable to the tranquilizers routinely dispensed to detune trooper’s after they returned from the bush. In fact, to one who neither smoked nor drank prior to military life in war, the palliative effects of a cigarette (a Camel or Lucky Strike, the two packaged in C-rations at the time) without the mind numbing, reaction dulling, side effects of other—legal or illegal—drugs was a blessing. At the time—in the early 60’s—few were warned of the addictive nature of the stuff and fewer still it’s adverse health effects (although cautioning that “smoking is bad for your health” would have seemed rather inane under the circumstances). As a consequence, I, and many like me, became addicted to nicotine—which compares closely with the addictive power of opiates. I have quit many times but have invariably resumed the practice despite every effort.

FWIW, I do not smoke below decks on the yacht; nor in the house (garage workshop excepted) nor in the car, nor anywhere else that might adversely effect others. And, I find sitting in the cockpit alone, with a glass of wine and a cigarette, in the after hours, quite enjoyable (and the smoke keeps the bugs at bay). I am now undeniably suffering the effects of smoking but as my physician—who frequently sails with us—has observed, at my age quitting will likely have no practical benefit, so I might as well enjoy myself. (And frankly, I’d rather die sooner while I still have my wits about me and some capabilities than endure like many of the witless drooling old husks we observe at the ACLF’s that our own breathing but demented, suffering, elders now inhabit).

What I find interesting about the debate surrounding tobacco use are the conflicts of purpose. “Tobacco use is bad for one’s health” (true), and “incurs huge social costs for health care” (actually not so true) so society should try to eliminate its use (probably true and certainly commendable). But…state and federal governments have, themselves, become addicted to the tax revenues arising from tobacco sales (over $15.6 Billion on cigarette sales alone in 2007) of which only a small fraction—in some states less than 2%—is utilized to fund anti-smoking efforts and healthcare initiatives for victims while the vast majority is absorbed into general funds to cover budget shortfalls from other spending. Hence they have a huge disincentive to preventing smoking. Such governmental addiction is exemplified by one advocacy group for tobacco tax funded spending that notes on its web site:

“…Year to year, tobacco tax revenues are more predictable and less volatile than many other revenue sources, such as income tax or corporate tax revenues, which can vary considerably each year because of nationwide recessions or economic slowdowns. In sharp contrast, large drops in tobacco tax revenue from one year to the next are rare because of the addictive power of cigarettes….” and further,

“…Because of the addictive power of cigarettes, even with greatly expanded public and private tobacco prevention efforts, nationwide smoking rates would, at most, decline by about one or two percentage points each year. But even if that happened, those smoking declines would reduce total pack sales and federal cigarette tax revenues by much smaller percentages because the heaviest smokers who consume the most cigarettes (and pay the most taxes) are the most addicted and most resistant to quitting.”

Interestingly, in the US, about 21% of the population uses tobacco with the greatest percentage use among the low income and minorities. A punishing “sin tax” may seem acceptable but just how long would a legislator last if he/she overtly proposed punitive taxes on the low-income and minorities to cover governmental spending gaps?

If improved health is the government objective, why not simply make tobacco a prescription mendicant rather than continuing to sell it over the counter? That way, addicts could obtain the “smokes” they need/crave while far, far fewer children and young people would be introduced to the practice.

Likewise, if good health and lower medical costs are the government’s objective; and, punishing taxes are viewed as the prescription, what about a $1.00 per bag (or item) tax on Fast (junk) Food? In the US obesity effects almost 32% of the adult population and in some states as much as 44% of the children between 10 and 17. (And, there is a direct, near linear, correlation, between the growth of “Fast Food” vendors and obesity rates.) Moreover, the low-income and minority population—which is nearly entirely dependant upon publicly funded medical care—comprises upwards of 2/3rds of the afflicted population. If improved health is the social objective, it would seem that a punishing “fat tax” should be instituted as the private and public healthcare costs of obesity far surpass the private and public healthcare costs of nicotine addition.

As to obesity and sailing, we do not permit anyone aboard the yacht that is incapable of doing at least two chin-ups or that induces a noticeable heel to the yacht; and, we do not allow any obese old goats that smoke aboard regardless of how many chin-ups they can do...


FWIW...
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Old 08-10-2009, 16:05   #79
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The government of Ontario just launched a law suit against the tobacco companies for health care costs this is following other provinces lead. In BC they are now planning to ban smoking outdoors near schools, playgrounds, soccer fields etc. It already banned in stores, pubs and bars, restaurants, government buildings and work places. There is even a lady who is suing her condo strata for a neighbor who smokes on the balcony. Oh yeah no more smoking in cars if you have kids either.

It looks like the fight is ramping up. Might as well quit…..
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Old 08-10-2009, 16:46   #80
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And we know it affects the brain, which depending on how it is wired (we are all a little different, right?) determines the "level" of craving. Nicotine is way up there on the scale. Said to be worse than heroine and crack.
When I was younger I used to have to help the other bus boys shoot up smack (heroin) or they couldn't work.

They all claimed to have quit smack several times when supplies got difficult but no matter how hard they tried never cigarettes. They claimed cigarettes were far, far more addictive. Their claim, not mine.

I've had a healthy respect for nicotine ever since.
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:22   #81
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A few years back, I embarked on a 7 day sail in the lower Chesapeake sans cigarettes. Thought was, if I didn't put into port, I couldn't smoke. Long story short, on day two, while in the Mobjack Bay, I put out a call on Channel 16 (not a May Day but close) for anyone in the area willing to trade a six pack of beer for a pack of cigarettes. Interestingly, I had several answers from Gloucester watermen, gaave coordinates and finally hooked up. While sailing along at 6 knots, a waterman came along side, I tossed him a six pack and he tossed me a pack of cigarettes.
Still haven't quit but am leaving Nov.1 to head down the ICW. Perhaps, I'll try again. If you're on the ICW in the Virginia/North Carolina area in early Nov., monitor Ch16.
jim
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:50   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat
This is true. I'ts very dissapointing to anchor off a pristine beach and find cigarette butts .

Even the top of Ayers rock was covered in cigarette butts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfingminniwinni View Post
Yea, so true.

Why is it that most smokers have no thought for the environment. I get truly annoyed when driving along the highway in BUSH FIRE season, when the car in front throws a cigarette butt out thats still alight. I'm sure a lot of bush fires are caused by careless smokers. Beaches, harbours, bloody butts everywhere.

So those that smoke thats why I want you to stop.

Now you got me going.

Glenn
This is the "respect" factor I was talking about earlier. Smokers are not all nasty, filthy, etc. Those with poor personal habits and no respect for others gives you what your finding on the beaches and Ayers Rock. No different from the drinkers chucking their beer cans and bottles all over. How many have gone to the beach and stepped on an old can or a broken bottle someone had thrown down? Or any other trash for that matter! Just because one smokes doesn't make them a dirty bugger. Admittedly, my home smells of smoke..until company comes then it's Lysol and Oust and a good vacuuming with "carpet fresh".
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Old 09-10-2009, 07:56   #83
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The REAL solution...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solitude View Post
The government of Ontario just launched a law suit against the tobacco companies for health care costs this is following other provinces lead. In BC they are now planning to ban smoking outdoors near schools, playgrounds, soccer fields etc. It already banned in stores, pubs and bars, restaurants, government buildings and work places. There is even a lady who is suing her condo strata for a neighbor who smokes on the balcony. Oh yeah no more smoking in cars if you have kids either.

It looks like the fight is ramping up. Might as well quit…..
Honestly I don't see why the govt pays for their health care at all for something they've done to themselves. Try to get life insurance from any commercial venue and see what happens. Try banning smokers from health care, THEN you'll get the desired results. Fewer smokers due to death or quitting and less tobacco as the companies go out of business due to loss of market share.

As for banning outdoor smokers? They better follow suit with every incinerator at every school and every smokestack and every car and truck as they put out 1000x more crud per minute than some poor schmuck standing out in the cold smoking a butt. It's like squirrel hunting with a tank! Overkill. And unfair. The punishment does not fit the crime....
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Old 09-10-2009, 10:56   #84
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Honestly I don't see why the govt pays for their health care at all for something they've done to themselves. Try to get life insurance from any commercial venue and see what happens. Try banning smokers from health care, THEN you'll get the desired results. Fewer smokers due to death or quitting and less tobacco as the companies go out of business due to loss of market share.

As for banning outdoor smokers? They better follow suit with every incinerator at every school and every smokestack and every car and truck as they put out 1000x more crud per minute than some poor schmuck standing out in the cold smoking a butt. It's like squirrel hunting with a tank! Overkill. And unfair. The punishment does not fit the crime....
Like so much of things it has nothing to do with facts or reality, only political "feel good" grandstanding.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:10   #85
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Like so much of things it has nothing to do with facts or reality, only political "feel good" grandstanding.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:30   #86
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informal survey results in

When I was an undergraduate we were permitted to smoke during class. When I first started teaching undergraduates I was painfully aware that if I didn't provide a smoke break halfway through class (my classes last 1 hr 45 minutes) that half the students would be climbing the walls. Yesterday, after reading this thread, I asked my students whether any of them smoked tobacco. Out of two classes, a total of 46 students, there was not a single smoker.

Progress is being made.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:39   #87
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It does not hurt anyone else...

My dad lost his battle with empheseyma 10 years ago. He was my best friend, best man at my wedding and absolutely my favorite golfing buddy. I was never able to take him sailing because at 57 he could not make the 150 yard walk from the parking lot to my boat...even on oxygen. He said it was his choice and nobody else was getting hurt. Well, we spent almost 10 years taking him to literally hundreds of tests, Dr appts., driving him to & from TX & Florida, trying to arrange a transplant, dozens of hospital stays, taking care of his home, lawn, cars, bills, trying to explain to our daughters why their grandfather refused to even try to stop killing himself. Drugs, tests, oxygen machines, oxygen tanks, therapies, it was constant. The coughing rarely stopped, always gripping the blood-stained rag he coughed into the last 3 years. Holding his hand as I watched the brain activity monitor cease...arranging the funeral, closing the lid on my best friend, watching the family cry their hearts out. Seeing Mom walk into their empty house, packing up his things. Helping Mom pick up the pieces. He never saw his 11 grand kids graduate from high school or college, never held one of his 4 great-grandkids. Keep smoking...It does not hurt anyone else.
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Old 09-10-2009, 11:42   #88
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Out of two classes, a total of 46 students, there was not a single smoker.

Progress is being made.
Thank goodness.
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:23   #89
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MY Life, MY Choice!
Sure, right up to the point you get upwind of me.

So, did you smoke in the car with your kids?
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Old 09-10-2009, 12:54   #90
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When I was an undergraduate we were permitted to smoke during class. When I first started teaching undergraduates I was painfully aware that if I didn't provide a smoke break halfway through class (my classes last 1 hr 45 minutes) that half the students would be climbing the walls. Yesterday, after reading this thread, I asked my students whether any of them smoked tobacco. Out of two classes, a total of 46 students, there was not a single smoker.

Progress is being made.
Bash,

Oh hell yes, my personal observation is that smoking is highly reverse correlated to eduction and income. I don't know what you teach, but we live in a engineering community near Boeing's biggest plant. Among our little circle of neighbors and soccer and boy scout parents, nobody smokes except my neighbor who is ex-military--even the kids in high school don't smoke as it is definitely considered way uncool. But I scoot ten miles north to my office in a rundown section of Puget Sound with a totally different social-economic strata and suddenedly smoking is common. The demarcation is pretty obvious.
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