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Old 07-10-2009, 18:33   #31
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I'm like dockhead, I only smoke cigars and pipes when I can find the good to excellent tobacco. I only smoke a cigar when I finish a huge project as celebration or to just relax as a good cigar will have you enjoying it for at least 1/2 hour. My frequency ranges from once a week to once every few months, depending on a myriad of variables.

Studies have confirmed that 1 cigarette = about 12 cigars in overall toxicity. I am in no way advocating smoking of any form but if you must, I believe cigar or pipe is the way to go, in my opinion. I only select pipe tobacco that not only taste delicious, but smells great as well for the nearby folks. But, they are definitely the high end ones.

I actually can't stand the smell of cigarette, but I would never tell people how to act or take away their rights to do so. Especially in the outdoors when we as a tax paying people have the right to enjoy it as well. I have absolutely no idea who the genius was who initiated this draconian policy as it should always be unlawful to take away the rights of people in "public" places!!!

just my .000002 cents!!
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Old 07-10-2009, 18:37   #32
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Sadly, Jedi, that wonder drug, nicotine, is delivered in a carcinogenic package, and many do not live a full life to enjoy the benefits you enumerate... or are so compromised during their activities so as to not enjoy the effects.

LSD accomplishes many of the same effects... but it has it's own downside as well... there seems to be no free ride, chemically speaking.

I understand, secondhand you all understand, that EXERCISE can accomplish many of those same effects as well as many others... As meritorious as exercising is it can be argued to have draw backs as well... sweat for one, torn cruciates and other sundry injuries among other things.

how's that saying go?

Life's a bitch and then you die...

only some sooner than others...
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Old 07-10-2009, 20:22   #33
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My father had open heart surgery at age 47 thanks to that wonder drug. My mother had her chron's disease greatly exacerbated by same wonder drug. Both now look like old shriveled versions of themselves, and neither are yet 60. Both will probably die within a few years, and my father can never enjoy an ocean passage with the son he taught to love sailing. All I can do is take him out for a daysail, and bite my lip as he chain smokes on the lee. I can also look forward to the day (soon) when they each in turn subject me to watching them die a smokers death, their lungs filling with fluid while they suffocate violently. All thanks to that wonder drug.
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Old 07-10-2009, 21:02   #34
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I'm not a smoker.

But out here in BC there are very few cigarette smokers. On the other hand there are a lot of pot smokers. It drifts accross the achorages in plumes. Here they have banned cigarettes practicaly everywhere, not pot though.....
I don't smoke pot because I don't smoke (meaning I cough and sputter if I do), and because liquor's quicker...I don't get high easily and I cost my dope-smoking friends too much.

But if the thing's got an ember with a stoner on the wet end, the same rules apply on a gas-powered boat. I will allow smoking on the aft deck of my steel boat if the wind is running aft, because I find it unpleasant. But steel's considerably less flammable than fibreglass or gasoline.
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Old 07-10-2009, 21:06   #35
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I have several amazing friends who have done, and do incredible things, that also happen to smoke. I wouldn’t care to call them derogatory names because they smoke.
Well, I loved my mother dead these seven years from lung cancer, but her brains went out the window when she refused to stop smoking, especially given how her own father died from smoking-induced strokes.

When she finally quit, it was too late, and she died. She said quitting wasn't as hard as she thought it would be, and it was the fear of it being hard that kept her smoking, even after the health risks were known.

So what do you call someone who taps themselves on the head with a small hammer 25 times a day, and eventually has an aneurysm? Persistent?
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Old 07-10-2009, 21:08   #36
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I, for one, had a VERY bad reaction to Bupropion- I'd avoid it.
IMO Gord give a nicotine antagonist a go.
The overall success rates are better than nicotine replacements.
HOWEVER, if your partner smokes don't bother trying unless they do at the same time. If there are ciggies in the house / boat, the temptation will be too strong. Also sometimes the smoker tries to lure you back in (evil people that they are) and usually succeed.

In the last three years I have had over 100 patients use Champix with about a 60% long term success rate (not valid info statistically, I know).

re side effects - as nictotine antagonists are centrally (brain) acting they probably should not be taken by people with epilepsy or acquired brain damage because of the danger of fitting. They can aggravate depression but were first developed as antidepressants (I think). The majority of patients have no significant side effects (mild headache & nausea), especially if they start the tablets at a lower dose as instructed and build up over 7 - 10 days.

In Australia the government will subsidise (max cost to pt is about $40 for 3 months treatment) the cost of a course of treatment on a once only basis. They feel that the not inconsiderable cost to the tax payer is money well spent in ultimate health savings.

I work with US oil rig workers and smoking is much more common amongst them than my onshore patient base in Australia. I think it is a geographic association with living south of the Mason Dixon line. A lot of rig workers also chew tobacco as smoking is banned in most places at work - naturally.

The cigarette companies are pushing alternative nicotine deliver systems such as chewing & snuff to preserve their consumer base as less people are lighting up. This nicotine chewing will cause a spike in the incidence of oral & oesophageal cancers in the future. Chewing may save your lungs but not your coronary arteries or your lower limbs or feet.

Give it a go, Gord
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Old 07-10-2009, 21:11   #37
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I do smoke and have since I was 15. Per my last IQ test, I was not determined to be ignorant by any stretch of the imagination.
IQ determines intelligence (poorly). Ignorance is the condition of absence of knowledge, or false knowledge. So it is possible to be both intelligent and ignorant.

Wilfully ignorant, on the other hand, is yet another thing. Smoking is harmful, and so is working in a coal mine without a mask. To deny it or even to minimize it ...well, it just makes me want to go cruising.
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Old 07-10-2009, 21:18   #38
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The proof of the pudding is in the eating. I know a lot of cigar smokers, and none of them shows any signs of addiction, however much nicotine is in the tobacco.
I brew from freshly roasted coffee beans and even when I drink three mugs I don't get "jinky" because there is less caffeine in coffee the way I make it than in instant or "machine" coffee.

Perhaps cigars are the same. It may be stretching the definition, but they are "natural" products in the sense that they are free of additives and, due to price and size, are not the sort of thing you burn 20 of in a day.

Cigarettes, by contrast, are a witches' brew of chemicals, and have jumped-up levels of nicotine. So the "wean off ciggies with cigars" thing has merit.

I can say that, like pot, cigar smoke doesn't bother me like cigarette smoke, which I've found worse now than when I was the kid of two smoking parents.
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Old 07-10-2009, 23:24   #39
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I smoke. I have done so since I was 14 years old. I've quit many times. I think my record is 2 years without a smoke. But often as not I'm smoking. I, like Gordy and every other smoker I know, smoke because I'm addicted to nicotine.

I agree that non-smokers should not be subjected to my smoking and therefore refrain from smoking on non-smokers boats or at the very least request permission to do so.

The issue is one of tollerance - I respect a non-smokers right not to breath my smoke. I do however expect the same level of tolerence in return.

Waving a hand in front of the face and pretending to cough as you pass my boat in the marina isn't helping much.
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Old 08-10-2009, 00:29   #40
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smoking

A bunch of hippocrits you are..All of you apparantly live perfect lives with no vices or habits.. Lets just dictate every thing we do and lose all of our personnel liberties..I am sure there are things that all of us do that we do not agree on, but its a personnel right to make our on choices..not yours to throw stones... doesnt matter whether its smoking,sailing,drinking or whatever.. you except people for who they are and get on with it..
20 years I spent defending your right to free speech and thought, I'll be damned to give you the right to tell me how to live my life
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:08   #41
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A bunch of hippocrits you are..All of you apparantly live perfect lives with no vices or habits.. ... .... its a personnel right to make our on choices..not yours to throw stones... doesnt matter whether its smoking,sailing,drinking or whatever..
20 years I spent defending your right to free speech and thought, I'll be damned to give you the right to tell me how to live my life
We herd of CF hippos (that's the collective name for the dangerous, grumpy amphibian African river creatures) care about the health of our fellow sailors and are encouraging them to give up for the sake of themselves and their loved ones who are also affected by passive airborne transmission of poisons.

Yes, Liberty, it is smokers' right to choose to smoke but what annoys me is they then expect my taxes to pay to keep them alive after their heart attack, stroke, lung cancer or limb amputation due to peripheral vascular disease.

I do agree with you that our personal freedom has been more & more restricted in the last 20 years. That is why I sail away and try to keep away from the regulation Nazis as much as possible.

BTW welcome to the forum. Have fun expressing your opinion.

Suggestion from the Spelling Police

hyp⋅o⋅crite  /ˈhɪpəkrɪt/ –noun
1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:15   #42
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A bunch of hippocrits you are.
Aww, take it easy on 'em. Haven't you heard? Smokers and fat people are the only two groups left that's it's OK to criticize. And after all, we know that everyone who has ever died has died of smoking. War, car wrecks, plane crashes, you name it. They were smokers, all of 'em. Someone tried to tell me that JFK Jr. never smoked, but I know they were lying, because non-smokers live forever. But I'll bet my boat that half of the smoke critics are hardcore drinkers. Watch that liver, kharma's a bitch.

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Old 08-10-2009, 01:20   #43
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Filthy dirty habit, I cant stand the slightest smell of nicotine and when your a non smoker you notice all the evidence like bad breath, damaged teeth and gums, smelly clothes, stained fingers, sick looking skin etc etc.

Experts say there are over 500 chemicals associated with smoking nicotine, many are highly dangerous and toxic.
My grand parents smoked and it was that smell combined with leather seats and petrol that made me constantly car sick as a child.
I watched my step grandfather cough his lungs out in his dying years when he had emphysema and cancer, after he smoked 60 a day all his life.
As a kid, its the one enduring memory of illness i have that effected most of the older people I knew.
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Old 08-10-2009, 01:32   #44
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Dockhead,

I am not going to change your beliefs, nor am I one to stand in the way of a sacred ritual (unless you try to bring it on my boat), but there is ample research and anecdotal stories that

1) cigars can be just as addictive as cigarettes and

2) nicotine is absorbed thru the mucous membranes of the mouth and tongue, which may lead to mouth, tongue and throat cancers (I have friends and family members who succumbed to this)

The American Cancer Society has more if you care to look it up, including how cigar makers are making small cigars more palatable so that people will be more likely to inhale.

For everyone who is able to cure themselves of their addiction to nicotine delivered by cigarettes by using and then totally giving up cigars, I say, "WOO-HOO! AWESOME! WTG!"

That you are not addicted and your friends do not show signs of addiction, I am happy for you all.

Fair Winds,
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Well, I did not dispute your point #2 -- cigar smoking is harmful. It can cause various diseases including cancers of the mouth and throat. But like anything harmful, the dosage is important. A few cigars a month and a few cigars a day are completely different things, in terms of health risks.

As to your point #1, cigars are definitely not nearly anything like as addictive as cigarettes, whatever the current propaganda line may be. I think probably it is because you get a much smaller dose of nicotine from smoking a cigar -- you don't inhale it. When you're smoking a cigarette you are absorbing all that nicotine through your lungs. It's a very efficient delivery mechanism -- in three minutes or so, you've sucked down the entire nicotine payload right into your bloodstream, and if you like you can repeat it. Cigars, on the other hand, are extremely inefficient ways (not to mention expensive) to get nicotine into your blood. It takes the better part of an hour to get through a good cigar, and most people don't want to do that more than once a day (or simply don't have time). So you just don't get that intense stream of nicotine going into your blood like you do with cigarettes, which is what you get addicted to. I have been around cigar smokers all my life (starting with my grandfather) and never knew one who showed any sign of addictive behavior.

As to quitting cigarettes by switching to cigars -- I think it's not for everyone. If a violently addicted cigarette smoker inhales a cigar he's just going to be in deeper s**t. But for a cigarette smoker who can manage to smoke a cigar like a cigar and can manage to get himself to a moderate level of consumption, say no more than one a day, then this is indeed awesome. The risks of smoking one cigar a day are radically better than those of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day.
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Old 08-10-2009, 02:12   #45
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Filthy dirty habit, I cant stand the slightest smell of nicotine and when your a non smoker you notice all the evidence like bad breath, damaged teeth and gums, smelly clothes, stained fingers, sick looking skin etc etc.

Experts say there are over 500 chemicals associated with smoking nicotine, many are highly dangerous and toxic.
...
Please replace the word nicotine with tobacco. Nicotine itself doesn't have a smell. The toxic and carcinogenic chemicals are from tobacco (and additives).

BTW- nicotine is also in potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant, and red peppers.
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