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exranger · 05-03-2009, 08:07

GOLD - A lot of people here are misunderstaning the "price" of gold. Gold does not go up in value, or down in value. The price of money, of a currency, goes up and down. An ounce of gold in 1909 bought you a decent mans suit. An ounce today? About the same. New technologies and discoveries can change the price of things, true, but gold is the constant.

Also, to those who say they would not sell the stock they own (or real estate) for what the market is offering today, and therefor their stock/real estate isn't worth the pittance that it is being sold for today, but actually worth what they value it as, well, I wish you well. But don't forget the difference between price and value. I can put a $2 million price tag on an old Geo Metro and pop onto a street corner for sale. Doesn't make me a multi-millionare. Things are worth ONLY what someone will pay for them. Doesn't matter if you're "willing" to sell your shares for that price.

Anyway, while we will, to an extent, recover from all this, we'll be different. very different. How we are different is up to us.

Sam Plan B · 05-03-2009, 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ram

Do you really think its going to be any better over there?
Give Obama a chance for Gods sake man hes only been in office a little over a month and hes left to clean up this whole mess made by the Bush party

Bush's party has been out of power for two years prior to the last election. Obama has been quite clear about his intentions regarding future tax increases on the highest tier of tax payers. And there is no reason for those with financial resources to allow themselves to be made cash cows. This seems to be a good moment to go for a cruise. If that cruise takes me to one of London's many residential marinas, so be it. With UK residence and legal work permission the whole of the European Union is available to live and work.

I cannot say with certainty what the tax rates are in the UK. But I have no desire to be targeted here in the US simply because I have a bit of money set aside. Money has mobility. I have a boat. The one will follow the other.

TaoJones · 05-03-2009, 08:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

<snip>
I cannot say with certainty what the tax rates are in the UK. But I have no desire to be targeted here in the US simply because I have a bit of money set aside. Money has mobility. I have a boat. The one will follow the other.

And following you and your boat will be US law that states US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income. It might be a good idea for you to familiarize yourself with Publication 54 (2008), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad before you assume you can sail away from your tax liabilities.

TaoJones

**sneuman** · 05-03-2009, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaoJones

And following you and your boat will be US law that states US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income. It might be a good idea for you to familiarize yourself with Publication 54 (2008), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad before you assume you can sail away from your tax liabilities.

TaoJones

Having lived and worked overseas for a decade, I can tell you that you can claim foreign-earned income credit up to appx. $75,000 (or at least that's what it was a few years ago). That means you will only pay U.S. taxes on the amount of your adjusted income that exceeds that amount (at the rate for that amount you would pay as if it were all taxable). BUT, you have to be able to claim a tax home in another country -- there's the rub for cruisers, I suspect.

aj_the_first · 05-03-2009, 09:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaoJones

And following you and your boat will be US law that states US citizens are taxed on their worldwide income. It might be a good idea for you to familiarize yourself with Publication 54 (2008), Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad before you assume you can sail away from your tax liabilities.

TaoJones

I was about to say the same thing: as a US citizen you will be taxed by the US regardless of where you are if you make a certain amount, only in the UK you will get to pay the 17.5% (or is it 19%?) sales tax (VAT) on everything you buy... And still pay income tax for the country you are working and living in.

Trust me, I'm living in Europe, (well Iraq right now, but my wife is living in Europe, and I just left and will be back this fall) and the taxes there will make you want to move back to the US in a hurry, and I get tax breaks as a US Soldier!
If you are coming to Europe, come for the fact that it is Europe, and Europe is a really enjoyable place to be, (and the fact they have health care and doctors worth having) because if you are coming to avoid higher taxes than you are in for a great disappointment as you will be paying taxes here and at home.

Ram · 05-03-2009, 10:37

-if you think the taxes are high here - wait until you go to live and work in Europe- as I have the last 3 years-Sales tax alone (Vat) is around 15-19% and depending on where and what you buy could be as much as around 30%-
Think fuel is high here when it was $4 a gallon? --I laughed when I heard people were bitching about paying that high cost- only wishing that was what I was paying-considering I was paying 2 to 3x that in some places in Europe- (gas in Turkey is about $18US a gallon- wile I know there not the E.u )
Fuel , and just about everything is higher priced in England/ EU- then in America- No One likes to pay higher taxes and the fact is many Corporations and high earning folks who earn $250 K or more have not had to pay any or little taxes in America -due to the loop holes-its time they started paying their fair share- Most if not all of the E.U pays for free or low cost Medical care and has far more social services then we have in America- someone’s paying for them and now it looks as if the EU is going to take longer to pull out of this down turn than we are-and they are talking about raising the taxes there to bail out the Eastern front-!
America still has lower taxes here-in just about, if not everything- The Obama plan only raises the tax to folks who make over $250k and it will only be about 4% more than it is now- as I understand- seems like that’s not too much to ask -to help pull this country out of this mess that Bush and his people put us in- In fact some might say its the patriotic thing to due- kinda like serving your country in a time of need- I don’t have much sympathy for those who will have to pay that extra %4 -5 tax and are making $250k
Obama took office with the Biggest Deficit ever- now some people are bashing him because he cant fix in 1 month what took 8 years of Bush SH*T to make.
Truth is no one knows what to do- with whats happening now in the world -all these talking heads have there idea on what will work, I wish I knew! Whats wrong with this picture?

starfish62 · 05-03-2009, 10:47

Get 'em, Ram!! You know, for a training-huller you're allright!

sundowner · 05-03-2009, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkJ

Its just a cycle so think of it that way... now is the time to be buying

Mark

Mark,
Do you think this also goes for buying a sailing-oriented business in the Caribbean? I've got my eye on one company who's recent revenue performance has been very good, but I'm concerned about the possibility of revenue falling off significantly over the next couple of years.

MoonlightShadow · 05-03-2009, 11:25

Sam, the grass isn't always greener on the other side (of the Atlantic, or any other Ocean). Presently, VAT (sales tax) in the UK is 15% on almost everything. I think income tax is 43% if you earn over £40,000 a year. 23% if under the 40k figure. You are allowed just over the first £5,000 earnings tax free. On top of this, you have NHI (National Health Insurance) which can be as high as 10% I think. Fuel is presently around £1 a litre, thats £4.54/$6.60 a gallon. A bit cheaper for the boat as they will allow you 40% of your fuel VAT-free for heating etc.

Wherever you try and park, someone will want to charge you for it. Be a bit careful in London, as we now have lots of pick-pockets and muggers, and of course, London is known for its Merchant Bankers (which in Cockney Rhyming slang, gives a very accurate description of them. Yup you got it). Added to that we have a half-wit Prime Minister (You probably saw him at his best in Congress yesterday), and he is leading a team of mostly half-witted MPs. The Conservative opposition survives only on poking fun out them, without any world startling ideas on how to put it right.

Today, our Bank Interest rate dropped to half a percent. And shares fell and the pound fell against the dollar.

But that is really rather academic as the banks will not lend anyway. Those that do, such as HBOS's Capital One, want to charge you 31% interest - as they have got to fund the former CEOs $1 million a year severance pay (His bonus for losing £24 billion!!!!).

Residential berths in London can be a bit expensive. St Katherines is nice, and if you don't live there permanently you are OK. If you want full residential, there is usually a waiting list. Places like Brighton are easier, but they are an hour or so away from The City.

Frankly, I think we have exactly the same problems over here, as you have in the US. My personal view of London is that it is toxic. And I was brought up there. But I am biased. I don't mean to be too negative, there are good points as well - we have Starbucks and McDonalds!!!) Seriously though, many visitors like London. Maybe its just because they are visitors and can go home again. But if you do come over, I'd be happy to buy you a drink.

Just don't leave it too long though, because as soon as my boat is ready, I'm outa here !!!!! I can't think of anywhere specifically better, but I just fancy a change.

**GordMay** · 05-03-2009, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by sneuman

Having lived and worked overseas for a decade, I can tell you that you can claim foreign-earned income credit...

For 2008, the maximum foreign earned income exclusion is up to $87,600 per qualifying person.
Goto:
Five Facts about the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion

David_Old_Jersey · 05-03-2009, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoonlightShadow

Sam, the grass isn't always greener on the other side (of the Atlantic, or any other Ocean). Presently, VAT (sales tax) in the UK is 15% on almost everything. I think income tax is 43% if you earn over £40,000 a year. 23% if under the 40k figure. You are allowed just over the first £5,000 earnings tax free. On top of this, you have NHI (National Health Insurance) which can be as high as 10% I think. Fuel is presently around £1 a litre, thats £4.54/$6.60 a gallon. A bit cheaper for the boat as they will allow you 40% of your fuel VAT-free for heating etc.

Down here the tax rate has remained at a flat 20% for the last 60 years....but big changes are afoot, the Govt are bringing in "20 means 20" - apparently we are meant to actually pay 20%

......but accountant is busy on that one

Of course also NI / Social for the self employed of around 12%, but capped at £5k a year (and yer get free health care for that

and an old age Pension - the money does actually go into a fund

) The upside is that Corporation tax is now down to......zero

Vat? nah, but now GST at 3%

But no Capital Gains or inheritance taxes.....so if yer forebears put more into the pot than they took out it gets passed down the line. The trick is to be the last of the Mohicans (Jersey Branch

).

.......but nonetheless not all good news down here. Gordon Brown declared war on us earlier this year. and Obama is apparently non too keen either (we expect the yanks to declare war a couple of years later - the usual timing in these things

)......but we f#cked the Anglos over in 1066. No reason why we can't do it again. and that jock b#stard as well

Christian Van H · 05-03-2009, 13:58

RAM!!! How dare you expect the wealthy to pay the same tax rate the middle class do or higher! Blasphemy! You Godless heathen anti-American disgusting socialist! Oh...wait. I feel the same way... My alarm clock must have woke me up to Rush Limbaugh this mourning. Sorry, Chris

cat man do · 05-03-2009, 15:04

A song written for the current situation (sound down if sensitive ears are around)

YouTube - Jump You ****ers

And a pic to go with it, I wont put it up as it has an offensive (to some) word in it, as does the song above.

Pic to go with the tune taken at some demonstrations over the bailout in New York

Edited You Tube LInk - Jump you "badword"

Enjoy, I did.

Add: Whoa, I specifically put these in without the rude words showing, and now they have come up by themselves, I posted on another forum as text links and they were clean.

Sorry, leave it to the mods as to if they will allow.

Dave

Christian Van H · 05-03-2009, 15:14

YEEESSSSSSS!!!!! I love it...curses and all! I'm goin' over to his website this minute and buying that song! Good voice and guitar too! It's like he's reading my mind!

MODERN FOLK!

Gene Burnett