Six Months on... Global Collapse Destinations?

[Spammy]

TSpringer:
Thanks for your comments about gold. I agree that it is not liquid in the way cash is. It is also vulnerable to speculative highs and lows, as I mentioned before. My purpose in investing in gold is NOT to maintain cash flow, but as a means of storage. I do not see good things on the horizon for the Dollar.
Regarding your comments about real estate: For the past 2 or 3 generations in the U.S.A., it has steadily appreciated, and has been virtually the best investment (some would argue), that is, until the past year. During this time, some markets have seen more than a 40% loss in home values. There is now a crisis in mortgage lending. This does not portend well for the value of an investment in real estate. I do not feel capable of predicting future housing values at present. Those who do suggest that some markets may ultimately see a decrease of 60-80% in home prices. This is why i hesitate to commit to realestate at this time.

[Spammy]

BTW, sorry for my contribution to the drift of this thread, but it is fortunately an off-topic thread, and the current state of the economy has a substantial impact on many cruisers' plans.

[stoupidmonkey]

Im an avid outdoorsman with many guns, tons of fishing gear, a nice enough boat, no dept, am young enough to do it and old enough to know how to. Never fear the future, just prepare for it. By the way, money is an illusion and you cant eat gold. Im ready for it, whatever it may be. Even if it happens to be business as usual.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by stoupidmonkey

you cant eat gold.

Yes you can

Gold leaf on the menu at refurbished hotel > Gold News > World Gold Council, the information resource for gold, investment, jewellery, science and technology, historical and culture
Gold leaf on the menu at refurbished hotel


The news feeds on this site are independently provided by Adfero Limited © and do not represent the views or opinions of the World Gold Council.
Tuesday, 4th March 2008 (3648 views)
Eclairs topped with edible gold leaf are among the sweets on offer at the newly-refurbished Plaza Hotel in New York City, according to reports.

You can also trade it for other goods

But, I would rather property that was purchased cheap and renting high.

The other stuff that was overbuilt and purchased at its peak for speculative purposes deserves to fail.

Dave

[rebel heart]

<-- Bought a lot more stocks today. :-)

[Ex-Calif]

Note to participants - Several personal attacks and politcal comments have been removed from this thread. There is value in this thread to discuss:

The economic conditions of the world
Economical cruising

There is no value in politics or personal attacks.

No warnings will be issued (so far) and the thread will rremain open (for now) so let's play nice.

[rebel heart]

Just a footnote that you can add people to your ignore list:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...?do=ignorelist

It's a handy feature especially against people who really annoy you, and that you feel don't really offer anything to the community.

[starfish62]

Originally Posted by anotherT34C

If you ignore them, they'll go away and howl at the moon. It's for the best...

I agree that they revel in attention--whether good or bad, but you can't let the statements go unchallenged. As simplistic as it is to "not them let have the last word," in our political system both sides of the argument have to be heard--or the silent voice is not acknowledged. Rush Limbaugh would be wearing a patchouli-infused sarong if he thought he could make more money doing that. Believe me, he is an entertainer and not a civic idealist. Unfortunately he's learned that there's a lot of money to be made in peddling divisive distrust, fear and outright hatred. Even more unfortunate is that a lot of people blindly follow what he says. I was diving with a guy last week that told me there, "was a direct line between Hitler and Hussein." He listens to Limbaugh, Hannity & O'Reilly religiously (literally), and has apparently never had an independent thought in his life.

[Christian Van H]

Originally Posted by starfish62

Rush Limbaugh would be wearing a patchouli-infused sarong if he thought he could make more money doing that

Where did you come up with THAT mental picture? Now I wont be able to sleep tonight! I noticed that for some reason, his original inflammatory post wasn't one of the censored ones. Might have been missed. He's done it before, and I guarantee he gets away with it again. He knows how offensive he is, but revels in revulsion.Cant quite understand that. As for destinations for cheap cruising, I still hear a lot of good things about the Dominican Republic. Hopefully, Cuba will be open soon too (I hope). Hope that isn't too political...

[Chief Engineer]

Next time you go to the grocery store...read the labels on the cans....China China Chinaor some third world country.

Gold isn't worth a fiddlers farrago....you can't start a fire with it.....and to fill up your fuel tank in bad times it might cost you a few ounces....

[starfish62]

Originally Posted by Christian Van H

Where did you come up with THAT mental picture? Now I wont be able to sleep tonight! I noticed that for some reason, his original inflammatory post wasn't one of the censored ones. Might have been missed. He's done it before, and I guarantee he gets away with it again. He knows how offensive he is, but revels in revulsion.Cant quite understand that. As for destinations for cheap cruising, I still hear a lot of good things about the Dominican Republic. Hopefully, Cuba will be open soon too (I hope). Hope that isn't too political...

Sorry, dude. That's not pretty, is it? Back to the vein:

I have several friends in Luperon (DR) who love it and show no signs of ever leaving. I think Cuba will be amazing when it opens--and very, very affordable. Nicaragua has some good spots (little corn) and is cheap. Making money while cruising is so problematic that finding a place where the $$ goes farther is important.

[Soft Air]

Is it something wrong with being at/or from a third word country? I am from a third word country here in south america and we also happen to be the first commercial allied and strategic partner of the US in the region, besides being a "third word country" as you call it, we call them countries under development as any other sobereign territory in the globe was in it's past history.

Thanks

[Tspringer]

Originally Posted by Spammy

TSpringer:
Thanks for your comments about gold. I agree that it is not liquid in the way cash is. It is also vulnerable to speculative highs and lows, as I mentioned before. My purpose in investing in gold is NOT to maintain cash flow, but as a means of storage. I do not see good things on the horizon for the Dollar.
Regarding your comments about real estate: For the past 2 or 3 generations in the U.S.A., it has steadily appreciated, and has been virtually the best investment (some would argue), that is, until the past year. During this time, some markets have seen more than a 40% loss in home values. There is now a crisis in mortgage lending. This does not portend well for the value of an investment in real estate. I do not feel capable of predicting future housing values at present. Those who do suggest that some markets may ultimately see a decrease of 60-80% in home prices. This is why i hesitate to commit to realestate at this time.

I own a small mortgage company and have been in the biz for 18 years.... YES, there are problems in this industry and mortgage guidelines are very tight. But, loans are definitely available and interest rates are crazy low. If things do degenerate to the point where the housing markets trade purely on a cash sales basis with no lending.... then your best investment is likely to be in automatic weapons and lots of ammunition. I think that's highly unlikely.

To me... real estate valuations are all about cash flow ratios. Its a numbers game. If I cannot rent a property for at least 1% of its value in monthly rent, then the home is overpriced. Period.

By that measure, most real estate is still overvalued. For example, in California at the peak of the market plain jane 3/2 ranch homes in a LA Suburb were selling for $600K. Those same homes would only bring $2K at most in rent. Why? Because $2K was the most the potential tenants could possibly afford to pay given their income. But the home prices were driven up by speculation on the hope they would continue to go up.

Now those homes are down to around $300K and the rents have declined to around $1,500. STILL overpriced by 50% as far as I am concerned.

But I am buying homes in neighborhoods where the values at the market peak were around $185K. I am buying the homes in need of renovation, doing the renovations and then renting them out. The cash flow is much better than 1% of the value monthly, so I view the homes as well priced.

The real estate market is such a mess, homes have to be evaluated not on a neighborhood by neighborhood basis but on a street by street basis and if the rental cash flow does not work, the house is still overvalued.

I do think it is very prudent to own some gold purely as a worst case inflation scenario hedge.



Terry

[anotherT34C]

Another bailout for AIG, thanks it seems to CDS payouts.

AIG is bailed out again | In a state | The Economist

In an attempt to be an informed voter, I'm trying to sort my way through understanding the convoluted CDS contracts. I'm now of the opinion that the entirety of this mess is not understandable by any individual, and anyone who tells you how it is, and knows what needs to be done, is lying (maybe to themselves). I hold a doctorate in applied physics, did my dissertation on the mathematics of j/psi suppression in quark-gluon plasma, and now design accelerators for a living. The understanding of these contracts and the math that goes into them eludes me. Maybe I'm just too stupid to get it, but I find it hard to believe that the business school grads (who I've taught math) are doing any better.

In science, when we have an incalculable problem where the theory (math) is intractable, we experiment. I think that's what we need to do now. Experiment. Nobody knows, nobody understands. Time for a best guess.

[Microship]

Never thought I'd say this after observing the staggering amount of money that I rescued from stocks and put into nautical toys in 2007-8, but I now consider my boat (and even the electronics) as a great investment. At least that stuff tanks only linearly, and can be used in the meantime.

The larger lesson here is that we should be investing in ourselves, our own tools and consumables, and of course anything that gets us out of debt. Even non-dollar-denominated international dividend-paying commodities have been halved in this paradoxical flight to treasuries, so nothing makes sense anymore except simple reality: solar panels, tanks of fuel, parts, voyaging stores, facilities, food production, water resources, and tools.

Cheers,
Steve