Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 30-03-2009, 11:56   #301
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,296
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
PS: Somewhere on that list of bad places to get investment advice - probably pretty close to the top - is from strangers on internet forums. Caveat emptor.
But, but, but - in this very thread on 02/26/09 I told ya'll to buy A.I.G. at $.52/share. Of course, it was supposed to be a joke and a few days later it was at $.42. That's when I began to wonder how many penny stocks are essentially backed by the U.S. government? I bought 1000 shares for $420. Today it's up to about $1.00/share; I've more than doubled my money on paper; and my 'profit' is about $580! Of course, I would not put real money into this market unless I knew what I was doing - and I don't.

I'm currently working on my new recommendations - please no PMs - you'll just have to wait.
__________________

__________________
"There's nothing . . . absolutely nothing . . . half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats."

Kenneth Grahame, The Wind in the Willows (River Rat to Mole)
slomotion is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 13:14   #302
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaoJones View Post
PS: Somewhere on that list of bad places to get investment advice - probably pretty close to the top - is from strangers on internet forums. Caveat emptor.
As always, an interesting read from TaoJones

FWIW, I suspect that the term "Investment" itself will need to re-defined. Whilst I have nothing against speculating in the financial markets, IMO a lot of folk (including "proffesionals") have confused "Investment" and "speculation" to the extent that they genuinely think they are doing the former when in fact doing the latter. Indeed, much of what I would consider to be speculating (aka betting) has in modern times been regarded by many / most as investment. But, as I said nothing against speculating - just IMO good to know it for what it is.

For me buying shares in ICI or GE is speculating As no matter what research I do or understand about the markets these companies operate in I am essentially betting that the share price will go up.....which on the face of it sounds like an investment (if I have taken the time to research and understand the company I am buying shares in ), however I have a number of issues in terming this as an investment.

Firstly that the share price will not solely reflect the underlying operations of a well managed company (if indeed they are) but will also reflect the sentiment of the market on both the management and sector both short and longer term - whether real or imagined. Sometimes companies simply fall out of favour with the market (which BTW is not a mechanism controlled by the lord god almighty - quite often it is the output of idiots who do not know any better).

Secondly, that the company I am investing in does not get the money For me it would be an investment in the company if they then did something with my money that added value to the company itself. Otherwise to me it is simply a bet on the share price.

which leads onto the third issue, Control. If I buy shares in a company via the market I cannot directly control the fortunes of the Company. Obviously if I had enough money I could buy enough shares to get a seat on the board of GE or Walmart etc. But I don't and even if I did, life is too short Therefore whilst putting money into a venture without control would not in my book automatically make it not an "Investment" it would make it a far less attractive investment - as after all I have no interest in simply buying 500 yards of Aviation fuel for a corporate jet. Not if I don't get to fly in it

Another irritation of mine is management having to respond to markets and not investors by being forced to be "exciting" "innovative", "dynamic" or whatever the current "Value enhancing" buzz words are - with the end result that essentially good companies end up getting butt f#cked by the market.......as after all, if any company had piled up a sh#t load of cash in the good times in anticipation that bad times always arrive sooner or later whilst sticking to what it knows best and saying to the market "their is only so many packets of cornflakes that can be sold in our market - which is why the profits do not rise in double digits annually. But we are good at what we do, so won't be diversifying into building ladders to the moon" .......would have been (and was) asset stripped - sorry I mean taken over and restructured to enhance / extract the value long ago.

My thinking as to one of the things that Western society will have to rediscover to emerge from the impending melt down is ways to actually use capital to invest directly in real businesses. Succesfully investing in a business making plastic widgets or simply selling them is never going to be easy, and will require folk to actually get their hands on / heads into a business rather than sitting back whilst the speculation in the market rolls on......whilst counting real or imaginary money.

Of course the initial idea of a stock market was as a tool for business to raise capital. and not to provide the runners in a horse race.....for a betting industry controlled by others........so perhaps things will turn full circle / go back a couple of hundred years - depending on your point of view / degree of optimism

Smile he said, it could be worse.
So I did. and it was.
__________________

David_Old_Jersey is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 15:25   #303
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Speculate: to assume a business risk in hope of gain ; especially : to buy or sell in expectation of profiting from market fluctuations

Speculum: an instrument inserted into a body passage especially to facilitate visual inspection

Am I the only one who thinks these two words are too close?
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 16:30   #304
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Quote:
How about this perspective: recessions, while painful are good for the economy. They wring out the weak companies, remove the excesses.
Wow, I see that there is at least one "true believer" left!
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 18:16   #305
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by keelbolts View Post
If all of this seems hard to believe, it's probably that you've been drinking the Kool-Aid for too long.
Would it be possible to post without parroting this crap? Every post that turns political has this phrase in it somewhere. Gosh, I wonder who said it first...
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 18:35   #306
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
David OJ makes a great point which I have stated many times in the past.

Once upon a time when you became a share holder you gave some money to the company in exchange for some of the profits if they made - a dividend. If the company was well run the dividend ROI was better than interest you could earn from a bank deposit.

But that all changed. It all because share price and buy them cheap and selling them at a profit... or holding them as an asset of increased value. The dividend became incidental.

This of course fueled speculation in shares and manipulation of share price or management decisions to make the company profitable so that their share price soared and that created more demand and drove the price higher still. Of course you could by shares on margin, short them, or sell shares you didn't even own. The entire stock market became one huge gambling casino with constant insider trading and none of punished.

Banks got into the financial instrument frenzy. They used to be there to provide finance for industrial development, small business development, home mortgages and that sort of "profit model". Screw that, they began to invent an entire menu of financial products, derivatives, CDSs, CDOs, securitized loans and other creative financial instruments. And they made up values for these things, paid companies to rate them which was how they got a blessing to, market these "securities" and sold them at huge fees. The supposef face value of these products is in the hundreds of trillions of dollars. Imagine the fees! Where did this value come from?

Thin air. The emporer's clothes... aren't they pretty!

The entire financial sector has run amok and has taken everyone along with them down the toilet.

We have been living in the new fuedalism.

Time for a reformation.
__________________
Sandero is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 18:37   #307
Senior Cruiser
 
senormechanico's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2003
Boat: Dragonfly 1000 trimaran
Posts: 5,832
Christian,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Van H View Post
Dude, the owner of your marina is YEARS behind the regulation! But go ahead and blame it on Obama too, if it makes you feel better!

You've done your share of political statements...
Just sayin...

Steve B.
__________________
senormechanico is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 18:39   #308
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Quote:
Remember, 92% of Americans are still employed (sorry, I don't have figures for other countries), and 92% are paying their mortgages and other bills on time.
This is just plain not true.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline  
Old 30-03-2009, 18:55   #309
Registered User
 
Christian Van H's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Princeton, NJ
Boat: Challenger Anacapa 42
Posts: 2,097
Images: 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by senormechanico View Post
Christian,
You've done your share of political statements...
Just sayin...

Steve B.
Hi Senor! We both have! Nothing to do with that though...I just see where phrases are repeated by rote, and it's a little scary on my end. I have never noticed this from you...yet!
__________________
www.anacapas.com

Here's to swimmin' with bowlegged women!
Christian Van H is offline  
Old 31-03-2009, 06:48   #310
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
Boat: Bristol 45.5
Posts: 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
This is just plain not true.
OK, you're right, the "real" unemployment number is 40%, real economic growth is -20%, the stock market and all of American business is a rigged game, everyone's against us, it's somebody else's fault, I need government to save me, government caused this mess, the capitalist system is dying, things will never be the same, it'll never be as good, my kids and grandkids will never enjoy prosperity, freedom is gone, life as we know it is over...............................Thank god it's almost April - maybe some of you can start going sailing again.
__________________
SCCatSailor is offline  
Old 31-03-2009, 06:58   #311
Back to the game

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Medellin, Colombia
Boat: Pearson Countess 44 wannabe
Posts: 545
SCCatSailor the statistics you expressed are the result of the way the first world countries have consistently consumed 80% of the globe's resources, and yes the are aginst these countries now that the rest of the world realized it. It will never be as good and it will only be possible for your kids and grandkids to enjoy "prosperity" if companies like Reebook can continue slavering 5 year old kids in 15 hours shifts at their overseas factories, I wouldn't dare to call that freedom as I have seen multinational first world companies doing the same in countries such as the one I come from.

The world will never be the same as the vast majority of poor people of the rest of the world got tired of the above situation and they are saying "no more" this is the bottom line of the entire situation and the stock market behavior is merely a consecuence of this.
__________________
JC
Soft Air is offline  
Old 31-03-2009, 07:10   #312
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 148
CVH,
I'm sorry if you're tired of the political use of the word Kool-Aid. It's funny, I don't usually use it, but it seemed appropriate here. If it's so tired that people are complaining, I'll have to avoid using it in the future. It originated w/ Jim Jones. Then and now it represents surrendering your judgement to someone else. He told his people to drink the poison laced Kool-Aid & the poor fools drank it. The Govt & Wall St said buy buy buy & the already deep in debt American people bought. One was physical suicide. The other: economic suicide.

Now, I'm saying that honest people didn't make real money in the scheme - all I'm saying is that every ponzi scheme eventually runs out of suckers. Wanna buy some really neat tulip bulbs?
__________________
How much deeper would the ocean be without sponges?
keelbolts is offline  
Old 31-03-2009, 07:46   #313
Moderator Emeritus
 
FrankZ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: Bristol 35 Bellesa
Posts: 13,565
Images: 1
This thread has gone far off topic for Cruisers Forum. Thank you to the people that have contributed on topic, but it is time to put this one out to pasture.

This thread is now closed.
__________________

__________________
Sing to a sailor's courage, Sing while the elbows bend,
A ruby port your harbor, Raise three sheets to the wind.
......................-=Krynnish drinking song=-
FrankZ is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Favorite Destinations, Do not Miss! Lundy Other 48 07-04-2013 16:05
Good Destinations in Event of Global Economic Depression? Captkev Dollars & Cents 304 05-01-2010 08:31
Best Chesapeake weekend destinations from Annapolis sneuman Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 14-05-2008 12:47
Unknown Destinations Amgine Other 6 17-03-2008 09:14
Choosing Destinations, Routes, and Times blahman Atlantic & the Caribbean 10 04-03-2007 16:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.