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Old 23-03-2009, 05:36   #226
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As long as 80% of the globe's resources are being consumed by only 20% (richest nations) the global collapse will not stop.
can you provide an iota of evidence to support that theory? It seems counterintuitive since the same statistics were in effect during the economic boom.
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Old 23-03-2009, 07:38   #227
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can you provide an iota of evidence to support that theory? It seems counterintuitive since the same statistics were in effect during the economic boom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soft Air
As long as 80% of the globe's resources are being consumed by only 20% (richest nations) the global collapse will not stop.



And it has always been that way.
The guy that owned the castle used 80% of the stone and steel.
What's new?
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Old 23-03-2009, 08:15   #228
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Going and Going and Going...

Good gravey. I can't believe this exchange is still going on...

But for the sake of the argument, the following is an exchange I happened to catch on MSNBC the other day:

Quote:
Newsman: Congressman, what do you see as the solution to the economic crises?

Democrat: We need to get rid of all the Capitalists and take back our Country!

Newsman: Why would you want to get rid of all the Capitalists?

Democrat: They’ve stolen all the money and put all my constituents out of work!

Newsman: What are your plans after you’ve gotten rid of the Capitalists?

Democrat: We’ll get investors to reopen the businesses and restore employment!

Newsman: But investors are Capitalists aren’t they?

Democrat: Yes, and if any show up we’ll get rid of them too and take back our Country!

Newsman: Ah, Yes…Well, thank you for your time Congressman.
Ya gotta love it...
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Old 23-03-2009, 09:27   #229
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I am reminded of the scene in 1984 when O'Brian is questioning Winston Smith. How many fingers do you see, asks O'Brian, holding up two fingers. Winston replies that he sees two fingers. No, replies O'Brian, you see three fingers. In time and with persuation Winston sees three fingers.

Can it be that those with more money have fewer human rights than those with less money? Willie Sutton would say so. Of course Willie Sutton robbed banks for a living and he knew where the money was. Willie Sutton's philosophy seems to be the going thing these days at least among the government class and their Quisling media flunkies. Instead of robery it is call redistribution. No one has a moral obligation to facilitate their own economic exploitation. The top 10% of all tax payers pay 60% of all Income Tax paid. That is what the IRS says and I believe them. If 1/3 of those tax payers moved off shore and took their wealth with them the IRS would face a revenue drop of 20%. Would the government make do with less? I don't think so. Would the government contract contending only with those matters reserved for it in the Enumerated Powers, Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. I don't think so. Government would go on enlarging where it could and ignoring the Constitution as it pleased. But in the end, when and what the end finally is, 1/3 of the top 10% will be off shore living their lives in some measure of safety.
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Old 23-03-2009, 09:47   #230
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I am reminded of the scene in 1984 when O'Brian is questioning Winston Smith. How many fingers do you see, asks O'Brian, holding up two fingers. Winston replies that he sees two fingers. No, replies O'Brian, you see three fingers. In time and with persuation Winston sees three fingers.
Who's O'Brian, Smith, and what does this have to do with global collapse.

Weren't you going to move to London or somewhere overseas? Having a problem removing all your wealth from the banks?
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Old 23-03-2009, 10:40   #231
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If your not already rich you're screwed

I lived and sailed about the east coast on several different boats between 1973 and 1982. I made of the mistake of getting married to a woman who I thought would be a great live aboard companion. Turned out wrong choice; had two children and moved on land.

I worked in a shipyard for a total of 22 years and several years as a commercial fisherman plus as an Ironworker. I thought I would always return to living aboard and cruising but now as I look at what I can get on early retirement I am screwed. For 22 years with General Dynamics I get 318.00 per month another 545.00 per month from Ironworkers. I get nothing for 5 years work in New York because I got laid off 5 days before the 5 year vested requirement and lose 400.00 per month on that deal.

I also, had money invested in the family with my father to the tune of 1.3 million but when my father deceased the stepmother managed to run off out the country with all the money. I can no longer work the high paying jobs and have worked as photojournalist for the past few years and now that job career does not look promising as I am losing clients daily and income has dropped in half.

And, have this uncanny feeling or compulsion to get off of dry land. I have my eye on a few boats that I can afford but are not the best of choices. Right now I feel like gluing together some large poly tubes or cutting down a large tree and making a dug out because I got to get off of this @#$%#$# land and all the crap that is going on with the down turned economy.

So, from experience I would say to anyone don't wait for that nest egg do it while you can.
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Old 23-03-2009, 11:11   #232
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My ex father in law used to say, "its not what you make, its what your keep" meaning basicaly that I was a stupid arse caused I tended to spend most of what I earned, and prefered living a better life now, insted of maybe in 40 years.
So when the market collapsed I had less to loose... and all the fat cats in the market looking for large returns, even though common sense told us all that they were unsustainable, lost large, very large.

Buy what you can afford now, preferable in cash, or with the smallest loan you can pay off quickly, assuming one can even borrow money now for someting as 'silly' as a boat.
I used to dream that ideal liveaboard for us was a 50-60 ft boat, and now am very happy with a 40 foot boat.
I used to think that el ectric wiches and hydralic windless was what i needed, now am content with a electric windless, and small man. winch.
Times change, goto roll with it.
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Old 23-03-2009, 11:56   #233
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Bobfnbw,

Yeah, what you say is right of course. But, I just burns my arse that you get statements on retirement throughout the years and you plan on 1400.00/month and find out after filing for retirement you are only getting just under 900.00. My father just to say a lot also and sometimes contradictory, I can only recall him saying stop complaining there's always someone worse off then you.
I know that I have this spring and summer when the work will pick up and that's when I plan to make my move. It won't be a 50, 40 or even a 36 footer but most likely a 28' swing keel that seems to call to me every time I pass by. She is on a big heavy-duty trailer in the lakes region and I believe the trailer can be sold easily for $1000.00 since I won't need the trailer after I launch her. She is a little beamy but looks to be a fairly comfortable vessel.
I guess I sell off my guitars and get an acoustic electric - find some bars or clubs to play and sign in besides a bit of travel journalism and photography to get by with. I remember one old ketch I bought down in the Chesapeake Bay. I knew the boat needed some work but sailed up to Pawcatuck CT. Went through some rough weather on the way home. When I hauled out at the boat yard one of the planks fell off below the water line. I always seemed to have had good luck on the water but living on land my luck reminds me off the song, " If it wasn't for Bad Luck I'd have no Luck at All."
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Old 23-03-2009, 12:09   #234
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I can see why you feel it burns you.

I am sitting here and on TV the News has just started with the lead story "Investigation into MPs expenses claims". It is suggested that MPs are fiddling their expenses.

What peevs me, is the use of the word "suggested" and why anyone in the World would imagine a politician pissing away public funds as being News. Surely it's history, accepted practice, tradition, etc.

And who exactly in our "Great" British Government is accussed? The Ministers in charge of Education, and, The Law. It isn't news anymore, it's gotta be comedy.
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Old 23-03-2009, 15:48   #235
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Rigmarole, I am making a July crossing. My money is already gone. You see, my money is in a multi-national bank. Moving it is a matter of a few mouse clicks. Besides, one can open non-resident accounts in banks on the Channel Islands, Gibraltar or on Grand Cayman.

It is unfortunate you have not read 1984. George Orwell, the author, had a clear understanding of the methodology of authoritarian governments. He lived in the era of the Stalin show trials when political correctness was a matter of life and death. He coined the term, "doublethink" which is the ability to hold two polar opinions simultaneously and believe in both. Such as, the crisis was caused by sub-prime loans / the crisis will pass if we make credit easier to obtain. This happens when willing people willingly believe what they are told without reflection. After all, thought is volitional. If one does not care to examine a non sequitur one mentally moves on to something else. One can see three fingers when only two are held up if one wants to hard enough.
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Old 23-03-2009, 15:58   #236
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1984. Well worth a read or two. Meant as a warning, but used as a blue print

Animal Farm is funnier though
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Old 23-03-2009, 16:08   #237
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Rigmarole, I am making a July crossing. My money is already gone. You see, my money is in a multi-national bank. Moving it is a matter of a few mouse clicks. Besides, one can open non-resident accounts in banks on the Channel Islands, Gibraltar or on Grand Cayman.
Spoken like a true patriot. Sam, how many fingers am I holding up?

Rayallyn, I was heart broken by your story about losing that pension by five days. This disgusting tactic happens every day in the USA, and although I have no background in law, I find it hard to believe it theres no legal recourse. Of course I also find it hard to believe I live in a time where people who deem themselves patriots openly wish for our government to fail...
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Old 23-03-2009, 17:04   #238
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While you pesimists are bleating about rich peopple making money, you are missing out.

Fifth biggest Wall Street gain ever

also the Feb USA existing housing figures are out and show a 5% increase in sales.

You 'money under the bed' pesimists will be the losers. You spare cash should be put into the share market now.


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Old 23-03-2009, 17:32   #239
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Christian,

I find it intresting that the pro-government lobby contends with counting fingers and cannot contend with ideas such as, no one has a moral obligation to facilitate their own economic exploitation. It seems to some, being a good patriot is to be a good sheep and queue up for a good sheering. This is not sustainable.

There is a maneuver in aviation that has a parallel here. It is called dynamic lift. If drag overcomes thrust and you cannot maintain altitude on level flight, put the nose up. That works for a while. But if the situation continues the plane will eventually stall and fall. The various FED actions altering the money supply and reducing the prime rate amount to dynamic lift. Massive stimulus spending is dynamic lift. And what is the drag? Total IRS collections annually come to more than $1Trillion. In addition to that, there are State income taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, estate taxes and more. Here's another concept, it takes money to make money. As the pool of available investment capital deminishes the energy is drained out of the economy. Gravity takes over. Bad things happen. Those with money need not wait until the American Iron Curtain goes up.
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Old 23-03-2009, 18:22   #240
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Everyone who has any money to manage at all is very lucky and should be very thankful. There are a lot of people in the third world who don't worry about an economic collapse simply because they have no economy to begin with, they are constantly living in our worst nightmare (financially speaking). That's all, just a reminder. Be grateful for what you have.
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