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Old 07-03-2009, 06:37   #181
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"Iíll bet a million dollars against any member of the Forbes 400 who challenges me that the average (federal tax rate including income and payroll taxes) for the Forbes 400 will be less than the average of their receptionists."[/I]
There ya go, Hylyte! Another easy way for you to make a million! GO FOR IT!!!

JimKing..."I was hoping to glean some insight from others about what might be the best places to go." If you'll read back through the thread, there were several destinations already mentioned. It could well be that even in a "Depression" Americans are still wealthier then most of the Nations you want to hear about. A very large percentage of the world still lives on less than $10 a day. A better question might be, "What exactly do you want to sail away FROM?"
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:48   #182
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Wait. Sam, are you truly saying it is our richest Americans duty to leave and purposely destroy our Country? What are they voting no against? You truly have lost me here... I'm hoping I dont understand you...
You are almost right. I do not wish to destroy the country only the government. Many people on the left like to think they are one and the same. But the framers of the Constitution knew the difference.

If the top 1% left the US with their wealth there would be a 33% drop in Income Tax revenue. The government would become insolvant and would fail. With the growth of government unchecked far into the future, its failure is something we all should hope for. No one has a moral duty to facilitate their own exploitation. In face, for the sake of future generations, we have a moral duty to resist.

However, few people indeed have the resources or inclination to resist with force considering the unlimited resources and willingness the government has to resist. At a minimum, one can resist with one's feet. In the case of those of us with cruise capable boats, the whole world is available for a refuge. Move your personal wealth off shore. Find a hospitable anchorage. Practice your profession in a country that does not look on you as just another cash cow to be milked dry. When the dust settles back in the US maybe one can return to a better and more Constitutional America.
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:48   #183
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Well - I'd like to sail away from a country which has a World Series yet does not invite other countries to play?
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:58   #184
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Well - I'd like to sail away from a country which has a World Series yet does not invite other countries to play?
Ok, we don't have a lot of participation, but maybe it has to do with logistics.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:11   #185
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Ok, we don't have a lot of participation, but maybe it has to do with logistics.
and possibly the fact that in the rest of the world it is a game played by Girls. School Girls

Cricket on the other hand .......Test cricket, a game invented specifically to annoy Americans as sometimes after 3 days everyone knows a game is not going to have result - and yer still get to play another 2 days more
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:20   #186
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Assuming that the sh#t does hit the fan, my place to be would be in the USofA, somewere remote but ready to dash offshore if need be, well dash on a 40 ft sailboat is of course a tounge in cheek saying so to speak... anyway.. .either close to the US, or very very far away, like christmas islands or some uninhabited place in the south atlantic or Indian Ocean. Because, if you are close to locals, say in The carib or South America, my guess is you would be cannon fodder for the poor and hungry.
The rule of law, keeps us relitively safe when over seas, but once that rule breaks down, all bets are off.

Of course there could just be a run in the mill kind of recession/depression like we have now, and then almost anywhere would be ok as long as you have the green backs to pay for it.
I started a thread on the provishioning threads to try and see how much food a boat can carry. My guess is, one would want to carry as much as possible. Its not that you can't buy toilet paper now in the bahamas, but what would happen once the global economy colapsed, how would one get that stuff, the short answer is, you couldn't.

My guess is, speaking of where to put your money, is trade goods. And what better trade goods than alcohol? I propose that a boat full of drinkable ETOH, is in better shape than a boat owner who has realestate ashore. Gold, no thanks. but scotch, you be da man!!
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:46   #187
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I don't think the hue of politics is the real question here, nor the real answer. The recession, slump, collapse whatever we project it as, has happened. Nothing we can do about that now. The reality is the past, and, what we can make of our future. Today, is the first day in the rest of our lives.

There are no perfect destinations likely to offer us more than we already have, even though we have all taken a hit lately - so, what we are really looking at is future security and happiness. What many of us have lost is our guarantees. Our pension. Our security of mind. We know that we may be forced to live on a smaller budget, without some of the luxuries we previously had. But, however badly we have been hit, we are, as the FAO reports that Gord linked earlier, stiil better of than most by a mile.

Cruising was not part of the problem, and while not generically part of the solution, it nevertheless represents the solution for many of us individually. We can live-aboard more economically than ashore if we avoid the expensive docks and lifestyles, and handle as much of our maintenance as possible ourselves? I still have a question mark on that last sentance, but believe it to be true. Especially so, if we visit places which have a lower standard of living than we enjoyed at home, together with a consequent low cost.

The phrase "lower standard of living" troubles me a bit. Because what I see in some areas, are a lower standard of living, but a higher enjoyment of life. Laying at anchor in a secluded bay, enjoying the sunshine, cooking our own meals, as compared to say, sitting in a marina berth and going to the restaurant, is very difficult to define in my own mind as being a lower standard of living, yet the cost differentials are substantial. The truth is we do not have a lower standard of living, in fact, probably a higher one, that just costs less.

Security is the issue then? Hmmm. Not really. If we are boat owners and the brown stuff hits the fan, then we simply hit the windlass. The boat gives us something a house doesn't. We can move.

But, at the end of the day, when we do make our last move... I'd bet its towards where we called home. Wherever that may be...
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:29   #188
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Yep, we are all happy to visit these places, eager, for those of us who haven't done it yet. But the going seems more important than the arriving.
Indeed, from a classic cruising motivation as well as a survival one. It is important to me to feel that I have the tools to bolt, if need be, though that's not what I would prefer as a reason to travel. But always, even before this economic crash that seems to eclipse all other considerations, the departure has been more important than the arrival.

Besides, if you think too much about where you're going, you lose respect for where you are.

Cheers,
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:33   #189
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Indeed, from a classic cruising motivation as well as a survival one. It is important to me to feel that I have the tools to bolt, if need be, though that's not what I would prefer as a reason to travel. Always, even before this economic crash that seems to eclipse all other considerations, the departure has been more important than the arrival.

Besides, if you think too much about where you're going, you lose respect for where you are.

Cheers,
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Aye. Well put, Steve.

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Old 07-03-2009, 09:43   #190
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Yup. I'll drink to that Steve.
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Old 07-03-2009, 09:57   #191
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Old 07-03-2009, 10:48   #192
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It is interesting to note, that in all the posts on this thread about Global Collapse Destinations, very few destinations are actually specified. And where they are mentioned, most have been pretty close to points of origin. So far, we have one American going to London, and a Londoner who fancies the US. A bunch of us mention the Caribbean. A sojourn into Mexico. And so on...

And yet, almost without exception, there is a broad concensus that we all recognise the problems, and we all want to cruise somewhere.

I imagined, that this thread would bring up all kinds of exotic paradise islands in the South Pacific and Indian Ocean maybe. White sand beaches, friendly natives, relaxed political regimes, and so on. But no...

Almost without exception, the posts are realistic in aspiration, recognise the negatives as well as the positives, and come up with no single viable destination.

Yep, we are all happy to visit these places, eager, for those of us who haven't done it yet. But the going seems more important than the arriving.
I enjoyed this comment as I did the thread itself. Maybe it's the need for each other or of one another....like minded free thinking folks that bounce ideas and opinions around one another. My magical destination for myself has always been the Marquesas. Probably since I read Typee by Melville and introduced to the lovely Faiaoahe in the book. Yet I could not see ruining the dream of that destination in escaping some financial Apocalypse and especially by myself.
Bottom line I think for me is knowing that we all are going to make it through this quagmire even if we might end up with a few arrows in our ass from it. It's nice to come here and hear the widely varied thoughts on things. We all come from different background creating different opinions but we have that one common denominator...our love for our little ships.
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Old 07-03-2009, 12:48   #193
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If the top 1% left the US with their wealth there would be a 33% drop in Income Tax revenue. The government would become insolvant and would fail.
Nonsense. 1% is 3 million people. Are they going to take their houses with them? Their cars? Their businesses? To where are they going to "flee"? Europe? Some police-state tax haven? Sounds fun, as long as you're willfully ignorant of the guillotine sharpening outside the wall.

Nobody should ever be so deluded into thinking that they are irreplaceable. I haven't seen any evidence that these very wealthy executives are especially talented. Rather, corporate executives seem to bear much in common with 3rd world kleptocrats. Makes sense, really. Those who control the means of production, and the flow of capital will always game the system (intentionally or not) to lavish the very best pay on themselves. This is simply human nature, and it doesn't matter whether it's corporate america, or some third world kleptocracy.
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Old 07-03-2009, 15:54   #194
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I'm afraid the Americas were the last places available for us to flee to, en masse, and they have been taken for quite some time now. Actually they were pretty well taken before the Europeans arrived but the Europeans made room.
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Old 07-03-2009, 16:46   #195
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Nonsense. Nobody should ever be so deluded into thinking that they are irreplaceable. I haven't seen any evidence that these very wealthy executives are especially talented.
Better question might be: who will they ride to the bank without the hardest working middle class in the world beneath them?

Sam, I'm going to post this in all honesty. You speak of our founding fathers. If they were here, and read your post, IMHO I believe they would have a word for your suggestions: TREASON
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