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Old 06-03-2009, 18:49   #166
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I second that DAVE
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Old 06-03-2009, 18:52   #167
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Amen Dave and Ram. Thanks for that.
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Old 06-03-2009, 20:34   #168
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The reason the ultra rich don't pay as much tax as a percent is most of their income is dirived from capital gains - 15%. Most of you must have seen Warren Buffetts interview where he says he pays much less as a percent of income then his secretary.
I personally don't ever complain about how much I'm taxed, just how it's spent. This is a multinational forum so please don't take this wrong, I'm sure other nationalities feel the same, BUT I THANK GOD EVERY DAY I WAS BORN WHERE I WAS AND WHO I AM. IF TAXES ARE THE INHERENT COST OF THIS, FANTASTIC.
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Old 06-03-2009, 21:49   #169
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In any case, I took the money, bought a boat went sailing for a couple of years. My wife says, that was the best financial decision we have made in a long time. It can't disappear, we already did it. Still have the boat, Still paid for, can still go cruising!
We lived outside the USA for 28 years, and when we returned in 2005, we were shocked to discover the financial chaos running rampant in all the markets. We knew that something was wrong, but we didn't know how long things would go before the bubble burst.

When we did our circumnavigation, we lived on $500 - $1000 per month. We still have our Privilege 39 catamaran, and it's paid for. It wouldn't take much for me to set sail once again. I can hear the call of the Bahamas, Langkawi, Thailand, the Tuamotus, and dozens of other affordable destinations around the world. In spite of the financial chaos, the oceans are still crossable, and cruising dreams still come true.
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Old 06-03-2009, 21:53   #170
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Nice Cat Dave! Is this the cat you circumnavigated on? Looks well found. Of course there will be 20 people here who say that cat could never make the cruise...
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Old 06-03-2009, 22:17   #171
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I don't live in the land of the DOW. I live in the land of the free.
I was just reading about a meeting to discuss a TSA directive for some 450 commercially served airports around the US. It may soon be known as the "land that used to be free". Oh, the contents of the directive are secret, but there are severe penalties for breaking the rules.

I mention it here because this may soon be coming to a port near you.

If anyone wants a copy send me a request to philsa at mts dot net and I will try to forward it to you.

Bureaucracy gone mad IMHO.
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Old 06-03-2009, 22:24   #172
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Nice Cat Dave! Is this the cat you circumnavigated on? Looks well found. Of course there will be 20 people here who say that cat could never make the cruise...
I recognize the inherent unseaworthy nature of a catamaran - capsize being an ever present risk. I acknowledge the inherent dangers of high speed sailing, and I continually take measures to protect my crew from whiplash. I understand that the unsinkable nature of my vessel may prevent me from writing a book on how to survive in a life raft. I admit that having two steering wheels and two rudders will probably prevent me from ever learning how to jury rig an emergency steering system. I confess that having two engines may prevent me from learning how to sail into crowded anchorages and drop anchor.

But in spite of these handicaps and limitations, we were successful in sailing Exit Only around the world. I guess good seamanship and a great deal of luck can even make a small catamaran sail around the world.
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Old 06-03-2009, 22:35   #173
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Go ahead Dave...Rub it in!!!
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Old 06-03-2009, 22:42   #174
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But in spite of these handicaps and limitations, we were successful in sailing Exit Only around the world.
ROFL! I swear, multihulls and recumbent bicycles occupy the same conceptual space. Long before I became a tri sailor, I pedaled a computerized recumbent 17,000 miles around the US. At about the 5,000-mile mark, I stopped in a small Texas town for lunch. As I headed back to the bike, I heard the derisive laughter before I saw him... a guy smirking knowingly at me and nudging his buddy.

"Ain't gonna work," he declared. "Can't balance it, no way, no how. You'd be crazy to try it."

"Oh no!" I cried. "Now what am I going to do? After 5 thousand miles, I'm stuck in Texas!" I snapped on my helmet and continued west...

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Old 06-03-2009, 23:01   #175
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ROFL! I swear, multihulls and recumbent bicycles occupy the same conceptual space. Long before I became a tri sailor, I pedaled a computerized recumbent 17,000 miles around the US. At about the 5,000-mile mark, I stopped in a small Texas town for lunch. As I headed back to the bike, I heard the derisive laughter before I saw him... a guy smirking knowingly at me and nudging his buddy.

"Ain't gonna work," he declared. "Can't balance it, no way, no how. You'd be crazy to try it."

"Oh no!" I cried. "Now what am I going to do? After 5 thousand miles, I'm stuck in Texas!" I snapped on my helmet and continued west...

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I checked out your web sites. Awesome. Mind boggling. Keep on keeping on.
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Old 06-03-2009, 23:16   #176
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In any event, it's pretty much a fantasy to think you can pick up your fortune and run off to someplace else. Where exactly would that top 1% go? To some third-world police state to live behind a blue wall? See how long that's tolerated by the locals.

People really have to get over themselves. We're not that special.
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Old 07-03-2009, 03:28   #177
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.. Most of you must have seen Warren Buffetts interview where he says he pays much less as a percent of income then his secretary...
For those who missed it.

Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner...
... Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent...

Goto:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/mon...cle1996735.ece

Or:
Buffett Slams Tax System Disparities - washingtonpost.com

And Buffett went a step further, putting his money where his mouth is. In November of 2007, he issued a challenge to his fellow billionaires:

"Iíll bet a million dollars against any member of the Forbes 400 who challenges me that the average (federal tax rate including income and payroll taxes) for the Forbes 400 will be less than the average of their receptionists."


So far, no-one has taken him up on this bet.
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Old 07-03-2009, 04:35   #178
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... Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent...
Leaving aside "fairness" their are good economic reasons for that - including (especially?) for the Secretary and her family.....Warren helps grow the pot bigger. Annoying as it may be (and notwithstanding it being abused of course by folk who are not growing the pot for all). Politically (?) I am more towards the social fairness side of things, but economically I am more towards the free market (but never unfettered).
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Old 07-03-2009, 04:37   #179
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In any event, it's pretty much a fantasy to think you can pick up your fortune and run off to someplace else. Where exactly would that top 1% go? To some third-world police state to live behind a blue wall? See how long that's tolerated by the locals.

People really have to get over themselves. We're not that special.
It is interesting to note, that in all the posts on this thread about Global Collapse Destinations, very few destinations are actually specified. And where they are mentioned, most have been pretty close to points of origin. So far, we have one American going to London, and a Londoner who fancies the US. A bunch of us mention the Caribbean. A sojourn into Mexico. And so on...

And yet, almost without exception, there is a broad concensus that we all recognise the problems, and we all want to cruise somewhere.

I imagined, that this thread would bring up all kinds of exotic paradise islands in the South Pacific and Indian Ocean maybe. White sand beaches, friendly natives, relaxed political regimes, and so on. But no...

Almost without exception, the posts are realistic in aspiration, recognise the negatives as well as the positives, and come up with no single viable destination.

Yep, we are all happy to visit these places, eager, for those of us who haven't done it yet. But the going seems more important than the arriving.
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:22   #180
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I am tapping into the ancient graduate school memories now so don't hold me to the facts but I think Malthaus said the planet could only support 5 billion people before it would run out of supportive resources. We have not reached the apocalyptic world of Mad Max but it sure looks scary. "It's a fools life, as they will find out when they get to the end of it...." (Thoreau). I feel I may be getting to the end of mine so it is time to make a decision.

I was hoping to glean some insight from others about what might be the best places to go. It doesn't seem that will happen and I guess that MoonlightShadow's is correct in saying that the "...going seems more important than the arriving." I'll head to the Caribbean this year and if health permits, the South Pacific next and eventually Thailand. Perhaps, during that journey, insight will happen or I'll be able to answer the original question of where are the best places to ride out the storm.
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