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Old 06-03-2009, 10:16   #151
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My answer to the original question is that I don't think we will see the world collapse, but I do think for reasons expressed by Tao and others, things are not going to improve quickly and may get worse before they get better.

While I'm a bit concerned about job security, I feel the largest impact on my cruising plans is that I will have much, much less money in my mid 50s to 60s than previously predicted.

Alternatives I see include:

1. working longer, to build more retirement/cruising income.

2. Cut expenses, by cruising more basically on a less expensive boat and cutting costs in other areas of my life as well.

I'll probalby do both.

One thing that will be interesting to see that I haven't seen discussed here yet is what costs and barriers may also come into play over the next decade. When I first cruised to the Bahamas 10 years ago, a cruising permit was $40. Now it's $150-$300. Anchoring in the U.S. has become much more restrictive. Insurance is also more expensive and more restrictive than it was 10 years ago. These issues may be as restrictive as a limited income.
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:21   #152
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I thought I would make a comment pertaining to the original topic...That is how the economy will or has changed peoples cruising plans. Lets say a few people are on the hard right now financially. Lets say the boat is paid for but not enough resources to sail miles and miles to destinations far off into the horizon. Well???...I know here in the U.S. there are good cruising grounds. The Keys, up and down both coasts there is a variety of beauty and weather suited for all different fancies. For a few extra bucks one could sail south to Mexico yet still close enough to home to return in a months time. I'm sure Australia. NZ and UK have great cruising grounds also. Cruising does not have to be a black or white issue as to destinations. It is difficult at first to live within our means during times like this but a good compromise can work. I am of the mind set that I'd like to turn off the news for lets say 2 years and sit on the hook and watch my hair grow. I've been a bum before and I can do it again.

P.S. My boat might not be in good shape...but it's slow..,.he he he
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Old 06-03-2009, 10:54   #153
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Number of ”hungry” people nears 1 billion

Another 40 million people have been pushed into hunger this year primarily due to higher food prices, according to preliminary estimates published by FAO today. This brings the overall number of undernourished people in the world to 963 million, compared to 923 million in 2007 and the ongoing financial and economic crisis could tip even more people into hunger and poverty, FAO warned.

Full story:
Number of hungry people worldwide nears 1 billion mark, UN agency reports

Goto the Report:

The State of Food Insecurity in the World 2008
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:39   #154
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Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey View Post

Of course in an island 9x5 miles with nigh on 100,000 people the trick is to balance the numbers against the loss of pleasantness - we could easily become a Hong Kong - but why would we really want to?

But marrying a local (I'm free ) means you can miss out the 10 year wait.
One of the aspects of Jersey that always appealed to me was the restrictions.

Thank you for your kind offer David, but I'll take a rain check on that (I was contemplating a born and bred St Aubin lass I already know). Although the prospect of having another watch officer has appeal. What ya like in the galley?
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Old 06-03-2009, 11:56   #155
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Got no boat, no hair, no job, no pension, no home; my savings are shot, my health sucks, and the light over the porch burned out last night. Earlier this week, I had to do a 48 hour fast (and purge). Lost most of my savings in the millenium debacle.
Notwithstanding, I (as I suspect most of us, here are) am a very lucky person. I don’t live in Sub-Saharan Africa, and my children/grandchildren don’t go to bed hungry...
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:04   #156
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[quote=bobfnbw;261732] Its funny. Always wanted a liveabord cruising boat, and now that I got one, every time I look at her, I see Noah's arc.... lol. Its true. I told my wife I need to get this puppy ready just in case.
But where to go is the real question.
quote]

Yeah. Noah's Arc is an apt analogy from some points of view. As said above, an investment in watermakers, solar panels and a years supply of food, would probably be one of the best investments to be made right now. Food prices are sure to go up. Not quite sure how I would store a years supply on board though.

I think there is definately a case for being prepared. I don't see total collapse, but I do see a gentle lowering of living standards, and that usually means that some idiot somewhere will start a war. That's history.

The boat is the key to it all though. You can move. An ideal destination one day, may be a war zone the next. There is much to be said for staying home, yet cruising into the quiter sparsely populated areas in your own Country, with the occassional foray somewhere else. Island hopping in the Pacific is very appealling, but Piracy could become a serious issue. Communications are going to be important in keeping abreast of the situation.
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Old 06-03-2009, 13:19   #157
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Well if I work until I'm 70 at the current rate SS(if its still around) will pay me $293 a month. I have no savings and the wifes small 401 has lost about half its value. The (small by all standards) house will be passed from her mom to her when her mom passes. I own all my tools, my truck and my boat are paid for. My business is way off but I am making enough to pay the utilities and buy food and I have skills that will always be needed no matter how bad thigs are.

The hurricane wiped out what little savings I had so I'm back to where I was 27yrs ago when I came to this country but no one in government offered to help me or my family. We decided the strings attached would just choke us eventually.

Kind of a pisser that my taxes are going to pay for the greed of bastards like Madoff and they are for the most part laughing at us.

Y'all are right we get the government we vote for.

Me, I'm slowly slipping under the radar and will continue you lead my small quiet life the same way as usual.

I have what I need and mostly don't care if all the people whom sunk themselves with huge mortgages and such can't by a new Hummer or if they lose their huge wasteful homes or can't clog up my favorite places with more condos.

Us poor(as opposed to rich) working stiffs are used to working for our living and will mostly not be bothered by a crash in "the market". We will just keep on doing what we have always done. Enjoy what we have. Don't worry about what we can't have, and be as happy as we can be until we die.

As always, EAT THE RICH, I only hope their fall is as painful as possible. They made the mess let them suffer for it. Greed got them in maybe greed can get them out. Piss on them all.........................m
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Old 06-03-2009, 13:20   #158
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So does decreased savings, and a potentially bleak economic future make anyone think more seriously about committing to cruising full time earlier?

One could argue the cheapest way to cruise is to cut the expense a home or rent and utilities that go with it, get rid of the car, get rid of the slip or hard storage and cruise full time.
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Old 06-03-2009, 13:24   #159
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Nautical62 - in a word, yes.

I'm starting to shift my own boat-dev priorities toward the basic infrastructure essentials, as much as I enjoy the high geekery. Might be needin' it Real Soon Now.

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Old 06-03-2009, 13:40   #160
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I've accelerated my time line to complete independence from 2 yrs to less than 1. I figure B.O. will screw things up enough by then to make this kind of a change in real estate mandatory. I want to sell my last piece of land before it's confiscated to assist those who don't have one of their own. At least I can live off that money for awhile and who knows, by then it might turn around and I can get another place to land live if I really want to then.
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Old 06-03-2009, 16:44   #161
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Originally Posted by nautical62 View Post
So does decreased savings, and a potentially bleak economic future make anyone think more seriously about committing to cruising full time earlier?

One could argue the cheapest way to cruise is to cut the expense a home or rent and utilities that go with it, get rid of the car, get rid of the slip or hard storage and cruise full time.
Absolutely.

The costs of running a car in the UK, are about the same as the costs of running a smaller boat. The costs of the house, local tax, Gas, Electric, Water, Waste and so on are/can be very substantially greater than the cost of running a larger blue-water cruiser.

Obviously, it depends very much on your pre-existing lifestyle, but I am becoming more and more adjusted to living a more adventurous life, at a lower cost, and being happy about it.

I lost a good size cruiser value, on the fall of my house price just before I finally decided to sell and cruise, but... As Gord was saying above, we are still the lucky ones.
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Old 06-03-2009, 16:45   #162
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Hylyte, Congrats on your latest post! In an earlier post you implied that I was Godless and immoral. Today you equated my post with a NAZI propaganda tactic. Is it possible for you to post on this forum without personal attack? From now on I will point this out to the forum whenever you attempt it. I have seen these tactics before my friend. Now, I loved the stats you posted. Everything you posted is very possibly true, and I'm no tax expert. Just to set my mind at ease, please explain how you are CERTAIN that the top 5% paid their actual, as owed taxes, and did not manipulate their REPORTED income as to greatly reduce their owed amounts? I was PM'd today with a message that Teddy Kennedy MOST CERTAINLY escaped paying a good deal of his. Why would ANYONE assume that the ultra rich aren't also able to deflect a good deal of their tax burden via brilliant bookkeeping? WHERE WOULD THIS SHOW UP ON THOSE STATS YOU POSTED? Also, are you shocked to find that our poor pay almost no taxes? If you are in fact one of the top 5% of the incredibly wealthy in our Country, please accept my apologies if this is incorrect.
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Old 06-03-2009, 18:07   #163
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Today I went to have my biometrics (fingerprints) taken for my British visa application. I intend to have my UK work permit in hand before sailing to Europe in July. I have already reserved a berth at a London marina starting Oct. 1, 20009. I should arrive at Gibraltar about August 1 and will cruise the Med for two months. Then I am off to London and search for a job. I am an architect with 25 years of experience so I am modestly optomistic.

I love my country. My family has been here since the Revolutionary
War. I want the US to prosper but my hope for that is falling with the DOW. As noted in an earlier post, the top 1% of those who pay Income Tax pay 33.7% of all Income Tax paid. If those in the top 1% income bracket leave the US and take their wealth with them the government will fail. And that is the patriotic duty of any American who still believes in the Constitution. Vote NO with your feet, or boat in this case.
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Old 06-03-2009, 18:22   #164
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Wait. Sam, are you truly saying it is our richest Americans duty to leave and purposely destroy our Country? What are they voting no against? You truly have lost me here... I'm hoping I dont understand you...
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Old 06-03-2009, 18:44   #165
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The DOW Jones average, like all averages is an index of investor sentiment oscillating irrationally between elation and despair. It does not reflect the underlying value or worth of living in any country. The greatness of a country and its worth depends on its constitution, it's bill of rights, and the freedom of individuals to choose their own destiny. If you erode the constitution, suspend the bill of rights, or take away my freedom, then it's time for me to leave.

I lost a lot of money when the DOW went down, but that doesn't matter. I don't live in the land of the DOW. I live in the land of the free.
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