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Old 02-10-2010, 17:58   #1501
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I'm gone a few days and come back to pages and pages of posts. Interesting reading. Engine now runs like a clock, but I'm much poorer for the process. Will be moving over to Napa to do a bottom job and few odds and ends, then???? Well, it turns out I haven't a clue.

No car, no house, no apartment, just me and the boat, so we're pretty much fancy free at this point. Still lots of work to do on the boat, but.....well......ya' do what ya' can when ya' can, right?

A friend told me things were very, very cheap down in the Philippines, so I'm thinking I might run down there and check that out....fly down I mean. Perhaps that would help me sort through the options....and I hear the women are very nice as well.

I used to think I was an expert on relationships and all, but no more. Everyone is different and I no longer believe there is one right way. I do think the reason some folks are single for extended periods of time is their expectations are no connected to their reality.

TaTa

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:07   #1502
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....and I hear the women are very nice as well.
Thomas,

and we USAers aren't?

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:11   #1503
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This thread seems to be more about staying single than not. ...
Can you explain what you mean by this? I don't get it. I think we're only trying to comfort ourselves in our loneliness.

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:15   #1504
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Oh no Margo, no slight intended at all. Of course USA'rs are nice too. I was just commenting on what I'd heard about the locals in that location with no reflection on locals in other locations! So, did I dig myself out of this hole yet? <visualize blushing emoticon here>

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:23   #1505
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Thomas,

I guess I jumped to the conclusion that you were one of "those" men we see so often. Who prefer "oriental" women, and it turns out it's because they're thought to be very compliant. I mean here, we actually expect to be treated like an equal partner - so much trouble! haha. Did you ask those who told you about Philippine women what they meant by "nice"?

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:31   #1506
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Actually my brother knows two guys who married Filipinos and they're very happy. I don't get the impression these woman are willing to play the role of doormats at all. It's a poor country, starved for capital and I think they are just looking for the best life they can get. I've lived in Europe and been to many countries, and everywhere I've been, the women have all seemed the same, they just want a good life for themselves and their children. Who can argue with that?

I'm actually kind of excited about checking out the cruising grounds there and the facilities. A good bit of the cost of doing most things on boats is the labor, so a source of less cost labor seems like a positive business potential to me. Worth checking out anyway.

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Old 02-10-2010, 18:44   #1507
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Cheap labor

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...A good bit of the cost of doing most things on boats is the labor, so a source of less cost labor seems like a positive business potential to me. Worth checking out anyway.
Thomas,

Do you think it's cheaper there than in say Mexico? I've heard there're some very skilled people there.

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Old 02-10-2010, 22:37   #1508
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and it takes longer to sail there than mexico.
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:41   #1509
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I'm actually kind of excited about checking out the cruising grounds there and the facilities. A good bit of the cost of doing most things on boats is the labor, so a source of less cost labor seems like a positive business potential to me. Worth checking out anyway.
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Actually my brother knows two guys who married Filipinos and they're very happy. I don't get the impression these woman are willing to play the role of doormats at all. It's a poor country, starved for capital and I think they are just looking for the best life they can get. I've lived in Europe and been to many countries, and everywhere I've been, the women have all seemed the same, they just want a good life for themselves and their children. Who can argue with that?
At this is my fist post in the Thread, I realise I have no credibility as such, however I do believe that I have something to contribute, so please bear with me

The Philippines is a great place to have work done, as the labour is very cheap, and there are some truly amazing areas to cruise, dive, and generally relax. A number of people in the company I work with are based there, and have businesses etc running.
For having any work done, you need to be there the whole time to supervise. I have worked with many Filipinos, and while they really try to please, they will cut corners in an attempt to please you i.e. 'Look Boss, finished already'...and upon closer inspection, a bodgy repair has been done.
Once you have 'educated' them in the standard you want, it gets easier. Pay the Foreman well, and make his bonus dependant on the quality of finish, then he will make the sure the job is done about 90% to spec. Just don't expect 110% expert finish, unless you supply the tools and materials, and train them in the methods.
They are the world masters at making a lot of out relatively little.

A well qualified Engineer working overseas will earn around USD1’500-2’000 p/m. Locally, semi-skilled tradesmen will go for USD10-20p/d. (This was a while ago, if you want up to date info, just pm me)

Anyway, back on topic...

Disclaimer: What I write is based on limited personal experience (In the Middle East) with the Filipino community a number of years ago, and based on regular business travel to the Philippines and other Asian nations...yes, work, not play!

Filipino Women (known as 'Filipinas')

1) A Filipina can be a remarkable faithful partner to have. They can be very loving, mostly patient and are very family oriented. I have a personal friend that has been working overseas for nearly 20yrs, to make sure his daughters are put through University and have the best possible start.
He visits his wife and family 4weeks every year. I once asked him if he was sure that his wife was faithful, and he said, 'She is a Filipina, and I trust her'. So simple, I was truly astounded, and my respect increased greatly. By the way, he was also faithful to her.

In most Western relationships, that would not be the case...

The families are very traditional, and you are expected to visit the parents regularly and naturally bring gifts. They often have family get-togethers, and the numbers of people that attend can be a bit overwhelming.

2) The mobile phone is their lifeline. It seems that they spend the whole day sms'ing all and sundry. This is because they stay in contact with all of their relatives, hence the large gatherings.

3) The saying 'Hell hath no fury like a Woman scorned' can also be aptly applied if you make the mistake of entertaining another girl at the same time. I have witnessed this from a colleague and his errant ways, and to be honest, I fear facing a pitbull terrier less than facing that (I am serious). If you are unable to reconcile, she will make it her prime objective to ruin everything that you have and do. Be Warned!

4) Never ever ever ever ever sign a document giving ownership of anything to your 'partner' to fulfill 'Filipino Law' whilst in the Philippines. It is true that foreigners are not allowed to own land etc solely, it must be in the name of a Filipino. Sign over exactly the same amount as to what you are prepared to lose. There are countless stories of Western men losing everything to the girlfriend.

5) Because of the extended family, and the economic situation there, once a Westerner is married to a Filipina, the requests for assistance will come, as surely day follows night. All Westerners are 'rich' in their eyes. So they will come and say, my Grandmother needs this operation, my Uncle wants to start this or that business, my father needs a USD1000 for another car...and so it goes. Understandable really, but it will rarely stop once started.

There is a lot more; just pm is you want to know more.

Cheers,

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Old 03-10-2010, 04:38   #1510
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My opinion is that trust should not be based on assumptions or your own grand illusions. Trust, to me is based on actions rather than words. Does his/her actions match what they say? You don't have to be a mind reader or talk a subject into the ground. You can either depend on the person or you can't. Trust certainly isn't all there is to any relationship, but it is a corner stone. And you usually can't tell right away if a person is trustworthy or not, it takes time to get to know the person.
As per my previous post which was more as a passing on information style, and not having any credibility, I would still like to make a contribution on this statement :-)

In a way, I see trust, per se, as an Enigma. Similar to humility, once you think you have it, you don't. It is a continual 'work' in progress. Not work as in labour, more as in a pleasurable activity.

My thoughts are, like communication, trust is an essential cornerstone to any relationship. Without trust, the relationship will eventually founder.

Gadagirl rightly mentions that trust should be based on actions rather than words.
However, In the initial stages of any relationship, be it platonic or otherwise, we have no option other than to communicate through words (and mimic, facial expressions etc, but that is another topic )
Therefore, I would perhaps go 1 step further and say that trust should be based on words that are confirmed by actions.
E.g. simplistically put, I say I will meet you at 9am (words). We physically meet at 9am (actions). Thus both our actions confirm our words.
We arrange again to meet at 9am. We both believe that both will arrive at 9am, based on previous experience with the other.

Naturally in a relationship it is somewhat more complex than meeting at 9am (Does it really have to be so complex?) Only the passage of time in a relationship will allow trust to develop. I also believe that the building of trust is inextricably linked to the amount of effective open communication, as well as the atmosphere that is nutured in the relationship.
E.g. Do I hold back on telling my partner something, knowing that s/he will over-react? Can I tell him/her anything, knowing that while the topic may not be so comfortable, it will be discussed in a non-judgemental atmosphere?

If I am unable to communicate the things that are important, how on earth will I ever be able to confirm my words with actions?

There are varying degrees in trust. I may trust someone with my money, but I would never trust him to take the watch at night on a long passage, lest he fall asleep, and we both come to a sticky end.
It also seems to be in the human nature to trust from the outset. It is only after bad experiences that we naturally become suspicious of a person, and the intentions.

In a way, it all comes down to risk. Are we prepared to take the risk to trust someone, knowing that we may be disappointed or hurt in the future? I personally am an optimist, tempered with reality. Is my future partner around the next corner, walking the rows in the next marina? I don't know, but one day we will meet...

The quote 'Hope springs eternal in the bosom of mankind' is often used. It is in our nature to have this fire of hope burning in our bosom. We should not allow past experiences to forever quench that hope, from a burning fire, to a puddle of ash...what a shame that would be :-(

Take it easy,

Bloke
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Old 03-10-2010, 05:23   #1511
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As for the Philippines social scene, I agree mostly with what has been put forth already. There are NO doormats-in-training here. There are PLENTY of firecrackers just looking for an excuse to go off (just like anywhere else in the world, to be honest). There are also an unbelievable percentage of intelligent, educated and dutiful women here. Many of which truly want to be the supporting partner, not the head/co-head of the household. This confuses many men into thinking that what she wants is to be subservient. Don't make this mistake. It ain't worth it.

What they want, generally, is to be provided for and for their families to experience a (sometimes healthy) portion of what they have in their own lives. Are there gold diggers? Absolutely, but that's true of any society. Some people are simply driven by material goods and/or status symbols. For the most part, if you take care of the Man Part of the operation (food, safety, shelter), they'll take care of the Woman Part (family, household maintenance, honest-to-goodness shopping, etc..). But if you don't exude a certain level of confidence and wherewithal, they'll pick up on it and you'll get second-guessed and kibitzed on everything.

Basically, they want a man. Not a metrosexual, not a house husband, and not someone who is going to constantly ask their opinion on certain affairs (the dozens I know well read this as insecurity). Many of them grow up with the idea that "He takes care of the income, I take care of the house and family within what he provides." Most men in the USA, Europe or Australia are raised to believe that you should make your wife your partner, and when she's just as invested in long-term viability and success as you are, it can be a wonderful partnership. That's no good for Filipinas most of the time. The ones I've met have told me, point blank "If we have $500/month to live on, I'm happy with that. If we have $3,000/month to live on, I'm happy. I don't want to worry about how we're going to get it, though. Just tell me what we have, don't be hoarding all kinds of extra for outside-the-family use, and I won't complain." Most of them prefer not knowing the inner workings of your business, or the medium/long-term prospects for your freelance work. It kind of violates their sense of security, even though they mostly know that it shouldn't.

Wow, that turned into a rant.
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Old 03-10-2010, 06:02   #1512
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Trust is about predicting future outcomes. Obviously this can become easier (more reliable) when we have been able to establish a track record. If we make an appointment to meet someone and they are on time we have a small sample space of behavior. If a pattern develops be can begin to trust in their reliability to be on time and to value this attribute.

Trust, as has been pointed out also depends on competence is a certain area. Someone may be competent at A, skilled and expert and complete incompetent or a novice in B. With this is related to predicted outcomes it shows that a person may be reliable/trustable in certain things and not in others. So you need to define those areas which trust or reliability is important.

Probably the most fundamental is honesty. If a person is not open and honest you have really no idea what you are dealing with. What they present is either intended to deceive to meant to allow you to attribute something to them which they haven't presented. So we might have the presumption that people are honest and open and if we meet someone and ask for a date, for example, and they accept we might assume (understandably) that they are not married or dating someone else (since this is a common expectation). But this person may not subscribe to the common wisdom and feel no need to state this for any number of reasons and so assumptions are at work and traps are there to fall into.

A lot of the issues we lump in as trust is really about the revelation of who the other person has performed in the past and will perform in the future. Our trust of them is the process of getting comfortable with their past and therefore predictable performance/outcome and this includes many accepted rules in society.

People send all sorts of signs about where they fit into normal predictable behavior or even where they don't! We use all these non verbal cues to read and predict behavior and establish "conditional trust". If we have a date with Jane and she shows up with a tiny mini skirt wearing stiletto heels, make up, showing cleavage and so forth we can read this (trust) that she is trying to appeal to our erotic sensibility. Her appearance is a message she fashioned to let us know something about how she will or wants to behave. We can read her intentions because we've seen this same type of message in others. This is a silly but obvious example how we navigate into relationships by sending messages with meanings on multiple levels based on societal norms.

But the conditional trust or predicitive behavior evolves into trust only after we have established a history of interactions with a person. And for some people this is more difficult to do because they require a long term history to accept and predict outcomes.

Another aspect is that people's behavior changes when things evolve which were not present during the establishment of trust period. All the sudden, out of the blue, new forces present and the game changes and it may be unpredictable (based on the past) ways. This can ripple through and even undermine the entire relationship, or it can reinforce it as well. But we often can't predict what happens when the game changes.
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Old 03-10-2010, 12:52   #1513
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WOW I opened a can, didn't I? In a rush at the moment, will comment in detail later. Mexico just isn't what it used to be the good deals down there have long since left.

Thomas
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Old 03-10-2010, 13:12   #1514
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WOW I opened a can, didn't I? In a rush at the moment, will comment in detail later. Mexico just isn't what it used to be the good deals down there have long since left.

Thomas

thomas--did you go farther south than ensenada?? ensenada is a border town in direct competition with san diego. not so in puerto escondido. pe is farther away from usa. pe is stulol cheap--i was quoted 1300 dollars for myworki need and have boar out for 3 months. how can that possibly not be looked at in a positive manner for us broke boaters?? lol..... dont give up so easily, friend...LOL....
what i would do if i were in your shoes---- i would start south. i would go to san diego to get my mexico fishing license and head south. i would check in in l paz and head the 100 or so miles north in sea of cortez to puerto escondido. i would utilize their yard then go to mexican riviera and star slowly heading south to canal. you might meet up with a carzy lady in a bigass lil ship with on board kat--never can tell--buddy boating beats soloness.....mebbe even start buddy boating in sd....gota get here for mex fishing lic-- online takes 6 mos--in person, 5 min. if you stay in the cruisers a-9 anchorage for 3 mos, the time will pass fast and i will be leaving in dec come helen highwater....
i was also avised the deals in mex are still there--ye just have to find them-i where to look.
my info was reinforced by a native.
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Old 03-10-2010, 14:36   #1515
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Dear Zeehag, I think I knew a helen highwater once.

You've been talking about Puerto Escondido for months, but the only PE I can find on the map is way down in Oaxaca. There's nada by that name on la mapa north of la paz. What are you talking about? I'll be splashing my boat next monday (8 days) in Guaymas and intend on moseying on down to la paz a few weeks later. See ya maybe.
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