Silly Ocean Question

[sck5]

If it IS a red tide then dont go swimming in it

[David M]

An algal bloom will not hurt you....just don't drink large amounts of the water.

[David_Old_Jersey]

I don't know - just wildly speculating

But over here sometimes the local sewage treatment plant can't cope, so they basically open the pipes to the sea. In certain places that can look like...........someones pumped a squillion gallons of sh#t into the sea. and smells like it But also does create marine growth - yum yum for somethings I guess

The local authorities always claim never to be pumping sewage out (and maybe technically they are correct? as long as it has gone through the system and someone has at least waived at it then maybe no longer raw sewage? - hence they can deny doing so?) , but they do pump it out "live", if not technically "raw" - unless we have some form of marine life that uses condoms and sanitary towels.........maybe your people are doing the same?, and are also are not shouting about it?

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by David M

An algal bloom will not hurt you....just don't drink large amounts of the water.

What we call Red Tide (a specific type of bloom and very poisonous) here in Florida will harm you. Many get respiratory symptoms if near it. This is not the same as the nausea etc. from the smell of large fish kills.

Several theories abound as to the causes of the increase in the number and frequency we are experiencing.

[hellosailor]

Word has gotten around, thanks to some publicized tv nooze bits, that if you are a savvy cruise ship passenger and you can videotape the garbage being dumped illegally? You can make a nice bit of money as the whistleblower once the fines get slapped on the cruise line.

I'd be surprised if any of the major lines are still dumb enough to be violating MARPOL out of US ports right now, video cams are just too cheap.

Anjou, in the US basically it is still a MARPOL violation to get seasick over the side within three miles of shore. But, there are times and places when one man's "garbage" is another creature's dearly desired lunch, and I'll make spot decisions based on that criteria rather than the MARPOL placard. As I suspect many of us do.

[drew.ward]

Supposedly Florida allows them to dump as they are coming into port.

This state is weird. Some marinas (varies by county) just let you flush your untreated sewage right into your slip. And when I lived in Tampa a few years ago they had a plan (probably still going) where they skimmed off all the solid waste from the sewage plants, loaded it into barges, went 7 miles offshore and dumped it into the ocean.

It was always really fun when there were heavy easterly winds or a storm in the Gulf -- nice and cloudy itchy water for the next few days.

[David M]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

I don't know - just wildly speculating

But over here sometimes the local sewage treatment plant can't cope, so they basically open the pipes to the sea. In certain places that can look like...........someones pumped a squillion gallons of sh#t into the sea. and smells like it But also does create marine growth - yum yum for somethings I guess

The local authorities always claim never to be pumping sewage out (and maybe technically they are correct? as long as it has gone through the system and someone has at least waived at it then maybe no longer raw sewage? - hence they can deny doing so?) , but they do pump it out "live", if not technically "raw" - unless we have some form of marine life that uses condoms and sanitary towels.........maybe your people are doing the same?, and are also are not shouting about it?

In the SF Bay, two of the local treatment plants (I wont say who) every winter become overwhelmed with rainwater. They are then forced to release effluent that has only been treated for solids. I am chartered by a bio assay company that has a contract to do a monitoring program paid for by the dischargers which is required by local regulators and state regulators. The study relates to dispersal of the effluent.

A few times I have been floating in almost 100% sewage effluent while taking samples.

Bottom line, don't swim in the SF Bay after a heavy storm that has dumped lots of rainwater. This probably applies to most all enclosed or partially enclosed bodies of water in this this country near large urban areas.

The local regulatory agencies here know exactly what is happening during large storm events. The problem is it will cost the taxpayers tens of billions of dollars to remedy the problem.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by David M

The problem is it will cost the taxpayers tens of billions of dollars to remedy the problem.

No problem.
We have plenty of money for that.
After all we are paying dealers to crush cars even after we give the buyers $4500.00

Couldn't resist.

Sorry.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by drew.ward

Supposedly Florida allows them to dump as they are coming into port.

This state is weird. Some marinas (varies by county) just let you flush your untreated sewage right into your slip. And when I lived in Tampa a few years ago they had a plan (probably still going) where they skimmed off all the solid waste from the sewage plants, loaded it into barges, went 7 miles offshore and dumped it into the ocean.

It was always really fun when there were heavy easterly winds or a storm in the Gulf -- nice and cloudy itchy water for the next few days.

Really? Not the weird part because that I beleive to be true.

[sck5]

from wikipedia

"No deaths of humans have been attributed to Florida red tide, but people may experience respiratory irritation (coughing, sneezing, and tearing) when the red tide organism (Karenia brevis) is present along a coast and winds blow its toxic aerosol onshore. Swimming is usually safe, but skin irritation and burning is possible in areas of high concentration of red tide.[8]"

My ex wife used to study red tides at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. She and the other researchers were careful not to swim in the water when the blooms happened. Some are apparently worse than others and you dont want to be the person who discovers just how bad any particular bloom is.

[s/v Beth]

There is a website that monitors the toxic algae blooms is florida:
Fish and Wildlife Research Institute
I personally like the idea that it is clams fertilizing. That would make me feel better. Plus I think you would notice something if the red tide was that pronounced. Then again, maybe not.

[sck5]

I dont know about clams fertilizing. I do know you SHOULD NOT EAT SHELLFISH from places where there is a red tide.

[Eleven]

Just a comment on the sewage works. I design systems for them and the 'storm tanks' are sized to a reasonable size. Unusual rain fall overflows them direct into the outfall channel but as each is a settlement tank trapping floating scum and heavy debris only fluids carry through readily. The concentrate is processed normally in due course.
Bigger problems in the UK is the older works built at the end of a gravity collection system, i.e. next to the river or shore. Then the works flood and everything goes into the river. It is normal now for a UK house to need sterilising after drying and subsequent re-plastering.
However that's not the likely cause of your problem, just some background on coastal pollution from humans.

[David M]

In the SF Bay Area, the rain water gets in to the sewage lines before the sewage gets to the treatment plants. This causes the treatment plant to become overloaded and the best they can do is to filter out the solids during heavy rainfalls.

[Maren]

Originally Posted by drew.ward

Normally the water here in Melbourne, FL is sort of teal colored and a little cloudy but overall pretty clean. This time of year it's also nice and warm.

For the past week it's been cold and brown. The brown water seems to go about 1/5 mile off shore.

Anybody an expert?

Umm, yeah. About that.

Why not ask the folks at FIT or Flordia Tech (or whatever they are calling themselves now)? That way you could get a real answer from a real expert, maybe even one with a PhD. I sure would be interested to know and I'm sure everyone here would be too.