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Old 25-02-2010, 20:39   #91
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Whoa, Stillraining, those folks need a visit from the transients. A few years ago, Hood Canal was having a population boom of seals. Then, a pod of transients showed up and the getting was good, they hung around for months. They took care of that problem.

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Old 25-02-2010, 20:42   #92
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If I haven't already said it, I enjoy seeing monkeys throw sh#t at the paying customers as much as the next guy but I saw those gentle giants the mountain gorillas at the San Francisco zoo and thought it was so tragic that there is where they can be safe. A short time after I was there (with my son when he was stil a child) a small boy fell into the enclosure. One of the female gorillas took the boy into her lap and stroked his hair keeping him safe until human handlers got the boy out.

The problem I have with SeaWorld is they promote the idea that keeping the Orcas in prison is a good thing. Prehaps the argument works for mountain gorillas when we don't seem able to protect them in the wild but it doesn't apply to Orcas.

Think I'll go hug a tree now. I'm sure I'll feel better.
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Old 26-02-2010, 06:03   #93
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Here's a link to an article by Chris Palmer, a Wildlife filmmaker and professor at American University: Marvel at wild animals -- from a distance - CNN.com

Below is a passionate rebuttal from Bill Street, a senior educator at SeaWorld:



Chris,

I have admired your passion for wildlife from the first day I walked into your office over 10 years ago at NWF, but I am completely disappointed after reading your opinion piece on CNN. I found it misinformed, contradictory (considering your use of trained animals in your own IMAX productions), and personally, completely disparaging to the incredible work that myself and the other 200 expert educators do at zoological parks each and every day.

I sincerely hope that I will have the opportunity someday to show you first hand the results of the millions of connections that we make between people and the natural world each year. I would gladly debate you over the true impact that our parks have made to conservation and the public's understanding and appreciation of wildlife and wild places. I would love the opportunity to introduce you to the hundreds of young adults that each year participate in our career programs inspiring them of a life of working to conserve the nature we love.

The timing of your comments, which are so completely opposite to Dawn's beliefs and what she dedicated her life doing, is at best distasteful and at worse callous. It appears that the underlying purpose of your article was a veiled attempt at promoting your upcoming book which is stunning. My admiration was clearly misguided.
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Old 26-02-2010, 11:08   #94
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I like the comment from Tellie where they say we will say some animals should be freed and then we will wear leather shoes. True. That's the way it is.

But then there are people who will not kill, nor eat nor trouble any animal - pretty and furry or nasty and slimy. Some vegetarians and some buddhists, etcc.

But to all our dualities there will be always the limes - for what can we do with the knowledge that every time we shower we kill zillions of crits? If you see the duality, you see the point.

So, I think, it is very good to protect as much as we can, and try not to get nuts in the process.

Also, note that if animals are on top, they will not care about protection of the human thing, will they (ezample: salties).

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Old 26-02-2010, 14:22   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeZ View Post
That statement has my head spinning, wondering how she could do that.

MikeZ
She chose to put herself in what could be, and ultimately was, a perilous position. I use for example the mauling of Roy (Siegfried and Roy). Was he not responsible to some extent? Once again, he chose to play with tigers. IMHO that seems extremely reckless.
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Old 26-02-2010, 14:41   #96
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She chose to put herself in what could be, and ultimately was, a perilous position. I use for example the mauling of Roy (Siegfried and Roy). Was he not responsible to some extent? Once again, he chose to play with tigers. IMHO that seems extremely reckless.
I agree 100% with that....but I don't think Sea World should allow anyone else to "Self Endanger" their lives with a whale that has 3 strikes against it now. For money or in the name of Education.
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Old 26-02-2010, 16:16   #97
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They keep saying the previous incidents have no bearing in this. I guess that's based on the attitude that the animal was being playful in each instance and its the approach of the humans that is at issue but even still it's a hard attitude to comprehend. Maybe it is just playing but if so it seems like bringing an elephant into a crystal shop.
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Old 26-02-2010, 17:11   #98
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Ya ....we tended to keep our kids from playing in Cristal Shops ....Heck fire...Im nervous in them...
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Old 26-02-2010, 19:07   #99
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The only Orcas that should be kept in the tanks are those that are being rescued from the wild for rehabilitation. I guess even that could be considered interfeering by some.

If a relationship can be developed between humans and Orcas in the wild then why not. Look at the Dolphins at Monkey Mia in Western Australia where tourists can wade in a interact with the dolphins. Perhaps some occasional feeding of the Orcas can tempt some in to interact, but feeding should not induce dependency otherwise it has gone too far. Not sure about wading in with Orcas though, might let someone elst try that first

Where I go for runs in the winter months, there are kangaroos that are wild, but quite unafraid and will come over to take a salty cracker biscuit if offered. Great for showing overseas visitors, but it is in the wild and not in a theme park.

Thank goodness someone has not tried to put Humpback whales into a big tank so they can exploit them.
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Old 26-02-2010, 19:58   #100
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I can't see rescuing any marine mammal in distress from the sea unless the specie is endangered. The fact that the weakest in general do not survive to go on to reproduce is one of the causes of evolution which of course is a good thing.
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Old 26-02-2010, 20:01   #101
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Old 27-02-2010, 07:09   #102
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David - you are right in general terms, yet there may be cases where it is not about the survival of the fittest but e.g. saving marine animals from effects of human co-habitance on the planet - say cleaning penguins from oil spill. In such cases human intervention and 'rescue' is probably justified and a good thing to do.

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Old 27-02-2010, 10:06   #103
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the tapes showed the trainer--female--smooching with the whale--a male---looked like the whale was trying to mate with her---is a problem when men are teased---whales are mammals, after all and very intelligent--if one keeps a male animal away from its kind for looong time, should it not believe it is as you are?? she was wearing orca coloring with here wetsuit---i think the male was trying to mate----mebbe we should try to keep the cultures separated so the critter population is not confused by our arrogant actions.....,
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Old 27-02-2010, 10:17   #104
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One theory I have heard (and makes a lot of sense) is the trainer had her hair flowing loose. The whale may have seen it as a toy as she was grabbed by the hair. Her mentor was interviewed and said that leaving her hair like that was a huge mistake.

We of course don't know what was going on in the mind of the whale so it is all speculation.
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Old 27-02-2010, 10:26   #105
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Imprinting is well known in many other species. When animals become confused about their identity they can begin to show their normal behavior amongst themselves to humans. It often ends up being dangerous. Even the cute little bottlefed lamb can grow up to be a powerful ram and because he is confused about his role may want to have a little game of head butting....
It's rather well documented in many domestic animals. Perhaps that is a meaningful contribution to understanding orcas that seaworld can take credit for...But is it really all that surprising? Is it something we need to know? I would much rather they be studied in their habitat to see what they can teach us about trying to fit into the big picture.
Good observation Zeehag
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