Seasteading

[StuM]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

Is that what one would call "success"? More like the UK tolerates it, for now, and it's within UK territorial waters.


Other countries don't recognized the official documents from there, but they'll sell you a knighthood or piece of paper saying you're a Duke or Count.

That one is as much a "seastead" as The Principality of Hutt River is a nation.

[Alan Mighty]

20 April 2019 early report:

Wanted American quizzed overÂ* ‘sea home’ off Phuket coast

[Alan Mighty]

Seastead to be dismantled, perhaps by the fabricator:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...ntled#cxrecs_s

Continuous zone/Exclusive economic zone explained (and perhaps the status might be tested if Ocean Builders wants to throw money at lawyers): https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...stead#cxrecs_s

[Alan Mighty]

According to media report, the Royal Thai Navy has towed the seastead structures to shore, so the structures can be used as evidence in a legal case:

https://thethaiger.com/news/phuket/s...oyal-thai-navy

[Franziska]

On a side note and just out of curiosity, was it not also Google and Microsoft looking into this for server farms in international waters a couple of years ago?
I think ResidentSEA was initially also along these lines, all of the above at least for tax purposes, even though in case of server farms there might also be other reasons.

I also seem to recall a (as far as I remember Russian) tanker selling tax free fuel to big yachts way outside of French and Monegasque waters for some time.

Place a fairly big floating platform (for sea keeping) way offshore, possibly with dynamic positioning and keep it afloat without entering the territory of other nations (except perhaps helpful ones) and approach it only from befriended nations.
Find a way to run this as self sufficient as possible (fewer people might make this easier).

One day we will perhaps see someone like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or similar trying a similar thing in space?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Franziska

On a side note and just out of curiosity, was it not also Google and Microsoft looking into this for server farms in international waters a couple of years ago?
I think ResidentSEA was initially also along these lines, all of the above at least for tax purposes, even though in case of server farms there might also be other reasons.

I also seem to recall a (as far as I remember Russian) tanker selling tax free fuel to big yachts way outside of French and Monegasque waters for some time.

Place a fairly big floating platform (for sea keeping) way offshore, possibly with dynamic positioning and keep it afloat without entering the territory of other nations (except perhaps helpful ones) and approach it only from befriended nations.
Find a way to run this as self sufficient as possible (fewer people might make this easier).

One day we will perhaps see someone like Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk or similar trying a similar thing in space?

What nation is going to "befriend" one of these setups and lose tax dollars?

So you set up a big server farm offshore...the nearby countries simply tax the heck out of any data going across their border to the seastead server farm.

Also, any crew or materials access can be severely restricted and/or taxed.

[Franziska]

I'm not saying at all that it should or could be done, but I find it interesting that even some big international companies have considered this from time to time.

As to befriending nations, anyone who would benefit from it somehow.
Former tax havens spring to mind, properly lots of ways to support without being direct and fully involved.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Franziska

I'm not saying at all that it should or could be done, but I find it interesting that even some big international companies have considered this from time to time.

They may briefly contemplate it but as soon as they start looking into the logistics and how easy it would be to get shut down...it's brief at best.

[Alan Mighty]

Asahi carried a more complete report than the Thai press: Thai navy boards cabin of fugitive 'seasteaders' facing death penalty?The Asahi Shimbun

[a64pilot]

To me it bugs me that nations can and do now lay claim to way more of the seas than they used to, by calling it an economic zone, which I thought was set up so as to control fishing, but now has apparently way more meaning than that.

I’d go so far as to suggest that the big mega companies haven’t gone to something similar to this as a tax dodge, only means they don’t have to dodge taxes.
Many nations, Bahamas and the Caymans come to my mind as they are in my backyard are apparently tax havens for the wealthy now, which says to me that they take less of the pie than others.
No nation is going to willingly give up that piece of pie, and you know that Thailand’s over the top response has to be for some good reason, either afraid of losing money, or afraid of another nation state setting up operations just off shore, or something.

Be interesting to know what they are afraid of?

[john61ct]

The Thai response had nothing to do with fear, nor any practical realities.

Just political grandstanding keeping up the jingoistic nationalism that is the norm across all segments of their political culture.

Or he refused to pay big enough bribes (blackmail) as other players became aware and wanted in on the action.

I doubt any nation would allow it, unless by a well-connected well-funded own citizen, where there is a clear benefit to that country.

The Brits just happen to tolerate eccentricity and a sense of humour, if the Bates were French or third-world nationals, it would have been nipped in the bud.

[mikedefieslife]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

I can see where the idea is appealing, but would seem easier just to buy a cruising boat.

A huge boat, perhaps a former ferry or similar, they don't seem to cost that much in the grand scheme of things. Crazy amounts of chain and heavy anchors.

Originally Posted by a64pilot

To me it bugs me that nations can and do now lay claim to way more of the seas than they used to, by calling it an economic zone, which I thought was set up so as to control fishing, but now has apparently way more meaning than that.

territorial waters in the UK used to be 3mn, then like most nations they were upgraded to 12mn. Where there are two more nations it just gets split.

The EEZ is supposed to only allow nations exclusive rights to things like fishing (though I thought the zone is supposed to only apply to bottom of the sea) , wind farming, oil etc... It does however seem to mean you would have a problem trying to do business in one, without prior approval.

[john61ct]

And you def don't want to park where you're creating any additional hazard in well trafficked sea lanes.

Anywhere near Phuket for example

[n13L5]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

A commonly accepted definition of the state is the one given at the Montevideo Convention on Rights and Duties of States in 1933. It provides that "The state as a person of international law should possess the following qualifications: (a) a permanent population; (b) a defined territory; (c) government

Now that is spooky, that "government" must be part of it...

Govern = rule, regulate, control
Ment = mind

So, literally, without mind control, there can be no state...

This, plus the requirement of state as an artificial person and that the convention happened in 1933 makes the whole thing as creepy and suspicious as Jekyll island 1913.

[Alan Mighty]

300 sailors and 3 ships to remove the seastead:

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/gen...force#cxrecs_s

and

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/deta...iland/30368155