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Old 01-02-2010, 13:58   #46
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The annoying thing about the unimaginable is that it is not easy to imagine.

Remember what the Romans used to say.........."%#*k me, this'll last forever"

Not the first to get that one wrong, nor the last..............
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Old 01-02-2010, 14:25   #47
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The subject question of this thread should be addressed to the members from Argentina. Did it occur to anyone there during the recent economic crisis to use a sailboat as a "plan B" means, and how did it work out for them. Everything else is purely speculative and quite pointless.
They do not wish to draw attention to themselves as they owe a lot of money.
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Old 01-02-2010, 18:48   #48
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I remember when I was very young
.
I remember when I was very young......................(this could get boring).........................

and at the time the Indians did not like the Pakistanis and visa versa. We were in a house about a mile from the airfield my dad helped build (good old American cold war infrastructure ya know) and the first night of black out came. No lights. Never seen that before. Wow! Kinda spooky. Some homes had trenches - not ours. Dad said "they won't bomb". We (well, not we of course, the Pakistanis, silly) had an anti-aircraft gun in the empty lot next door. So cool to look at during the day.
A couple of days later........yep. Air raid sirens - I got out come clothes and was told "you won't need those". They bombed. Our family was running down the street (in few clothes) to a neighbor's house to jump in the trench after all the windows on the "airport side" of the house were blown out. Hours of dry mouth looking at and listening to explosions. (BEND DOWN - COVER YOUR NECK!!!!) Next day we had a trench dug and spent several nights in it. I modified it from the neighbors plan - I put a plywood roof on it and stocked it with food and drink and a (don't tell them) flashlight.

For some reason I own more flashlights than anyone I have ever met.

Strange.

A boat would not have helped much here though.
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Old 01-02-2010, 20:20   #49
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The subject question of this thread should be addressed to the members from Argentina. Did it occur to anyone there during the recent economic crisis to use a sailboat as a "plan B" means, and how did it work out for them. Everything else is purely speculative and quite pointless.
I don't know about Argentina. I went to this site SURVIVING IN ARGENTINA and did not find anything specific about boats or yachts.

But, on the other hand, I think there are plenty of examples of people resorting to boats to escape:
Vietnam boat people
Cuba
Haiti
North Africa to Canaries/Cape Verde/Spain/Italy
Balkans to Italy

That is off the top of my head. I'm sure there are more if we think about it.

Edit (google "boat refugees" and select news - plenty ... better yet select images)



Probably the reason we don't hear more is that these are generally very poor countries. It is the poor desperate types that make good headlines. People with money enough for a decent yacht may have been able to get out in a more dignified manner without making the news.

Actually, thinking this through, it strikes me that you bring up a really good point in favor of a Plan B yacht.
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Old 01-02-2010, 20:25   #50
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you are all optimists

If you read about what Stalin did to the farmers, being self sufficient does not help when a military is trying to starve you to death. Unless you know in advance when they start the genocide how do you get your boat out of the harbor? If you read about the National Socialist German Workers' Party, it appears that all socialists are cut from the same cloth.
I hope we can prevent a Germany, Russia, etc here in the USA.
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Old 01-02-2010, 20:36   #51
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..... how do you get your boat out of the harbor? ......
Excellent question. You need some warning time. You may not get the warning, but better to have a boat in the harbor than have to rely upon a car or walking.

I have often wondered how some Jews knew to get out of Germany and why so many stayed. I understand it is a complex question and that getting out was not easy, few places to go. Still some stayed who could have gone while others went. How did they know to go? Or was it just dumb luck?

I have this argument with my Wife. I would like to leave now and go cruising, for many reasons. She wants to work a while longer. We did agree to have a boat in the harbor, just in case, and sail it locally in the meantime. Not the only reason to buy a boat, but a good one.
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Old 14-03-2010, 07:43   #52
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Im European but almost every older American I know have a plan B for the apocalypse! There was 2-3 years where I kept meeting ordinary Americans among the other internationals and they all had a hut, an apartment in Eastern Europe or some **** in the mountains set up for them selves.

I was somewhat chocked by this first, that these people actually practically prepared and planned for it ("just in case"), compared to European who are much more take and go, acting on impulses or seem to be further away from the practical arrangements.

Perhaps its because Americans feel it even more on their shoulders but in my case it was an additional wake up call. Noahs ark and all. Those who dont understand dont udnerstand, please go somewhere else..

Whatever way it goes its not just gonna level out, but simply, unavoidably turn into a (much needed) 'catastrophe' one way or another (or 'solution' if you will). Look at it this way - if the current state of affairs pushing nature over the cliff continues, Earth stands maybe 2-3 years more before one thing or the other would trigger something. If it isnt the end of oil (and thereby 'food' which is immanent), the economic complete collapse, its a natural disaster. Every other great civilization fell sooner or later without too many exceptions.

What is sort of amazing is that mother Earth actually held out this far and that all the time something came in between when things were about to hit the fan (such as the last plane 9/11 missing the white house..)

But maybe theres no need to take it all so serious. These days apart from hurricane sailing I'm getting interested in being selfsufficient at seas: how to catch fish, clean the sea water or simply drink it, cook with it etc (hello Waterworld). In fact theres plenty of food in the sea: even plants as seaweed (coastal). Though I have to admit I have almost zero experience in the larger oceans. Anyone ever tried being without food or water for months at sea? Sure'd be interesting to hear about.

Also if anyone ever been in hurricanes over 100-150 knts at sea and the best tactic to dodge it (for a 45' monohull Im think 2-3 heavy duty sea anchors with all at least 50m 50mm line each, bow to wind, isolated cockpit like the single hand racers or something but thats just theory.. (does the anchors hold out?? and what are the best sea anchors around?)
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Old 14-03-2010, 08:06   #53
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Just to let you all know the economy is going fine, people are spending, house prices are rising - in Australia. Australia is part of the world to for those that were not aware and no everyone I associate with are not expecting the world to end soon.
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Old 14-03-2010, 08:06   #54
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... Noahs ark and all. Those who don't understand dont understand, please go somewhere else ...
Could you please explain that statement, a little more clearly?
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Old 14-03-2010, 08:20   #55
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Originally Posted by Therapy View Post
I remember when I was very young......................(this could get boring).........................

and at the time the Indians did not like the Pakistanis and visa versa. We were in a house about a mile from the airfield my dad helped build (good old American cold war infrastructure ya know) and the first night of black out came. No lights. Never seen that before. Wow! Kinda spooky. Some homes had trenches - not ours. Dad said "they won't bomb". We (well, not we of course, the Pakistanis, silly) had an anti-aircraft gun in the empty lot next door. So cool to look at during the day.
A couple of days later........yep. Air raid sirens - I got out come clothes and was told "you won't need those". They bombed. Our family was running down the street (in few clothes) to a neighbor's house to jump in the trench after all the windows on the "airport side" of the house were blown out. Hours of dry mouth looking at and listening to explosions. (BEND DOWN - COVER YOUR NECK!!!!) Next day we had a trench dug and spent several nights in it. I modified it from the neighbors plan - I put a plywood roof on it and stocked it with food and drink and a (don't tell them) flashlight.

For some reason I own more flashlights than anyone I have ever met.

Strange.

A boat would not have helped much here though.
Wow. Was that '65 or '71?
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Old 14-03-2010, 20:14   #56
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... has anyone here made the decision to buy a boat based on the possibility that our society may be headed down the tubes? ...
I did, in 2003. 7 years down the track, the society is still doing fine. Me, well..., I have the boat, and I will not hesitate to use it!

barnie
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Old 14-03-2010, 21:03   #57
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self-reliance

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Im European but almost every older American I know have a plan B for the apocalypse! There was 2-3 years where I kept meeting ordinary Americans among the other internationals and they all had a hut, an apartment in Eastern Europe or some **** in the mountains set up for them selves.
Excuse me for waxing philosophical, but your post begs the question.

We Americans, as a matter of self-identity, tend to value self-reliance. Should you wonder why this is, read the essay "Self-reliance" published in 1841 by one of our premiere transcendentalist philosophers, Ralph Waldo Emerson. You'll find a zillion copies of it on the internet. Americans who have never even heard of Emerson are still likely to likely to be caught up in the vortex of his musings. It's not only part of our culture--it's who we are.

The ultimate test for the self-reliant individual is being able to survive social collapse. It's not that Americans are more likely than Europeans, or others, to think that society might actually collapse; rather, we tend to be more likely to fantasize about how to handle that situation, should it ever arise. You'd understand this had you grown up in a culture that grew up on the border of wilderness.

Our American tendency to fixate on self-reliance is often reflected in our choice of boats. As a general rule our preference in vessels is less influenced by economics, hydrodynamics or aesthetics than it is by questions of how the vessel might survive hurricanes, societal breakdowns, nuclear winter, alien invasions and/or (shudder!) the collapse of the Dow Jones.

This is also why we seem so fixated on cruising with firearms. Or (ahem!) wasp spray.

So, should you ever participate in a forum of cruising sailors in which a huge number of Americans voice their opinions, you'll find that an unusual number of us favor the (cough!) "bluewater" design best describe as "lifeboat-with-a-stick."

Such designs make us feel self-reliant. And when the aliens invade, you'll understand.

(Sigh!)
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Old 14-03-2010, 22:32   #58
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I've been going through a little self inventory for such an event. Problem is... my boat is ultimately too reliant on.... well,.... parts and stuff. If I can't get diesel fuel, I can sail off my anchor. Being engineless isn't a problem. The toilet is pretty good and I've got some spare parts kits but eventually..... I'm reduced to a bucket. Okay, so that's not a problem.

Lessee, shower and watermaker. Well, the shower needs an electric pump to drain. Those pumps don't last all that long in the scheme of things. Once there's no UPS or Fed Ex, I reckon I won't be able to replace it. Okay, so deck showers in a bucket... works during summer.

Which brings me to the next problem. Where to go. This is the real rub. I'm not sure that I'd really care to be in a 3rd world country..... without money....(I mean, who'll take old dollar bills from a failed currency anyway?)

I've got the best infrastructure in friends, neighbors and resources right where I am. Tough to start over when it's every man for himself.....

Reality is that my boat provides back up power, heat, lights, water for short term emergencies (1 day - 6 months or maybe longer) but not for a permanent WaterWorld scenario.

But like some have mentioned... it IS fun to think through. My favorite book growing up was Nevil Shutes' "On the Beach' I think it was. Story about the last survivors of a nuclear war, slowly waiting for the end down under.

It really is kinda about that self-sufficiency thing I guess.
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Old 15-03-2010, 06:49   #59
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Could you please explain that statement, a little more clearly?
somehow when I write up in forums I occupy the worst side of my literal lacking skills:

What I meant is its a thread about 'what to do when the **** hits blabla' so those who dont believe use the mocca on other threads. Plenty of thread in here to grease up!

Ps
its not about having someone sell this **** to you. Either you feel it or you dont. Period. (good luck whatever..)
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Old 15-03-2010, 07:32   #60
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We have our boat for fun and to be able to live aboard down south during cold New England winters. She is also our personal rocketship to a safer place than wherever we might be, when things become uncomfortable. We're not ready for Waterworld, which I've seen at lots of times, but I think there is wisdom for planning to be a refugee, should things come to that.

I'm more worried about temporary breakdowns of civilized order, such as happened in New Orleans after Katrina. This weekend, we had a very strong Nor Easter, which if it had been colder, would have been a real blizzard. With no power, cold temps, and ice, the potential exists for a real problem, but our boat was on the hard, not much good to us this weekend. We do have a generator for the house, with 2 weeks of fuel.

So, we try to be somewhat ready for whatever might happen, but we also try not to stress too much. When the s#$t hits the fan, it will be in a surprising way that not many of us are prepared for, and probably at a very inconvenient time...
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