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**a64pilot** · 28-03-2016, 08:26

I see it as either.
1. just submit, make the best of it.
2. try to be reasonable, ensure them your willing to pay, money is not the issue, the issue is internet, which you need to work. Can't we please work something out, please? I need to work. that might get you somewhere, but ask, don't threaten.
3. Lawyer up, get one and let them handle it, but gut feeling is you lose in the long run, you may win, but "they" Marina management will always have it out for you, as you are a troublemaker.

Maybe one of their other Marina's may work?

I'd start looking real hard for another Marina if at all possible, just as a back up if nothing else.

BTW, I think my Marina has the right to move me as well, maybe even on a temporary basis, they don't as I assume they then assume all liability for being properly tied, and I have no idea how the handle the power bill, but they can.

They decided out of the blue that they would only allow "Marine grade" dock boxes recently, I had 90 days to get rid of mine and or replace it, BTW, they would sell me one for $500. It wasn't worth the fight, that I would lose one way or the other, so I bought their box, knowing I'll have it for a year and probably won't be able to give it away when we leave next year.

Tayana42 · 28-03-2016, 08:27

Lizzy Belle, is there anything we members of this forum can do to assist you now? Would emails or letters from around the world to the owners or managers put them under pressure to find a workable solution?

S/V B'Shert

Lizzy Belle · 28-03-2016, 08:33

I'm in the Netherlands, we don't just "lawyer up"

Also not worth it, as it would cost me way more then just leaving and losing the money paid.

Problem in the Netherlands is: I got nowhere to go. Liveaboard marinas are very few and far between here, and they know it. There are even less then I thought, cos I was under the impression they had liveaboards in their other marinas too. They don't.

Anyway, I have done what I can: talked to them, explained the issue, put it all in writing and offered several decent & good solutions that should make everybody happy.
They're discussing it tomorrow, so for now I'm waiting to hear back.

Tayana: thanks so much for offering, but no. This is up to management, and I don't think they care much what other people think. Don't think I would either, to be honest. They'd probably get annoyed if anything.

**boatman61** · 28-03-2016, 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

I'm in the Netherlands, we don't just "lawyer up"

Also not worth it, as it would cost me way more then just leaving and losing the money paid.

Problem in the Netherlands is: I got nowhere to go. Liveaboard marinas are very few and far between here, and they know it. There are even less then I thought, cos I was under the impression they had liveaboards in their other marinas too. They don't.

Anyway, I have done what I can: talked to them, explained the issue, put it all in writing and offered several decent & good solutions that should make everybody happy.
They're discussing it tomorrow, so for now I'm waiting to hear back.

Tayana: thanks so much for offering, but no. This is up to management, and I don't think they care much what other people think. Don't think I would either, to be honest. They'd probably get annoyed if anything.

Sounds to me like they intend to take the path a marina group in the UK did back in the 90's.. gradually bought out private marina's along the S Coast then got rid of the full time liveaboards by installing breakers set ridiculously low in the elec boxes on the berths.. then they made the new contracts up to limit fulltime onboard to 4 weeks/year..
As most boats lift out in winter however one could get a winter liveaboard berth for five months as it brought in revenue from otherwise empty slips.. tough luck if you did not have independent heating.. they'd trip with and electric kettle..

They got ya by the Short and Curleys gal.. I'd sail away this summer and make plans to do your work from further South..

Celestialsailor · 28-03-2016, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it is unlikely that you have a contract on a particular slip. Read your contract for sure. Carefully. All marina contracts I have ever seen give the owner the right to move you around as they like. What you should look for, however, is some requirement of a particular type of notice (this could be implied by law, also), or particular infrastructure (power, internet) which is mentioned as part of the deal.

If you want to go all legal on him, then you might have extensive rights based on the fact that this is your home and the mooring is rented as residential. This would kind of be the nuclear option, however, and you should think twice about using it, as it creates a strong incentive for them to stop offering live aboard moorings at all, in order not to deal with all the rights of actual residents.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boatman61

Tread carefully Lizzy.. remember.. a lot of advice is coming from folks with strong 'Mud' affiliations.. and little Sea Gypsy experience.. a lawyer will gain you nothing but more expense.. and potentially expulsion..
As far as I can see your old contract.. even if it covered this.. which I doubt, has no solid footing with the new owners.. they are offering you another berth.. that it does not fit your personal needs is irrelevant.. they are not honour bound to meet someone else's contract.. in fact they can claim to be going out off their way to understand your difficulties.
I would suggest a negotiation to have WiFi and whatever you have in your current slip to be extended to the new berths.. an improvement to facilities being an asset to the marina as it makes these berth more desirable.. and less hassle with other long termers there.

Just my 0.0000001 centimes..

I truly feel for your situation.
My experience is the same above. I have never won a fight with a Harbour District. I always ended up on the short end. They could actually make it very difficult on you Lizzy by refusing future liveaboards and blaming it on you, trying to get you out. I have seen this tactic used on this side of the pond. Another reason I went cruising was to get out of the California, anal-retentive nanny way of controlling boaters and filling their purses.
Time can be a great healer. Meaning, just try to work with the way things are to be for awhile (what ever changes you can adapt to) and later see, when things cool down, if they can accommodate you a little easier.

**a64pilot** · 28-03-2016, 09:29

OK so stay it is and do the best you can.
I think that is the smart move myself, but I'd be looking for a better option, possibly a private slip or something?
Its been a long time since I was there, but I thought if anything the Netherlands would understand Liveaboards better than most, those large barges I saw in the cities tied alongside of the canals, sure looked like people were living in them, they weren't?

valhalla360 · 28-03-2016, 11:26

I know it would be a bit of a pain but what is the definition of liveaboard?

Would other non-liveaboard marinas be open to you staying for a month before moving on...only to return in 2-3 months for another month. If you could get 3-4 marinas that would be open to that, you could rotate thru them giving you some fresh scenery and there's always the chance once you get in with the owner, they might look the other way if you stay longer than a month.

Definitely not worth a fight if the new owners aren't cooperating. My guess is they plan to transition away from liveaboard and this is just he first step. As someone else suggested there may be laws protecting residential renting, so they have to be careful just kicking you out but the less they play nice the faster the liveaboards will choose to leave.

Side note: You don't have to share if you don't want to but 35Gb/wk is a ton of data. You don't have a virus or something eating up data do you? We share a 10Gb plan and are moderately data heavy and rarely run out. If it is actual usage, is there any way you could manage the data consumption. If it's large files that are uploaded and downloaded, could you save them up and then go find a free wifi hotspot to download every couple days. That might bring it down to where a cellular hotspot could be financially viable.

**s/v Jedi** · 28-03-2016, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

No, I can't

The cable is connected to a box on the dock, each slip has one. You plug in for electricity & internet.

I don't think you understand what I mean. What I propose converts your physical Ethernet port in that box into a private wireless signal that you can pickup at your new slip and convert back into the physical Ethernet port.

Another option: I believe KPN can put a post ashore close to your new slip with a connection. This is how the river barges get it... or at least they did when I still lived in Rotterdam

Three Sisters · 28-03-2016, 13:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lizzy Belle

Haha! We've actually done that once during winter

Funny but also a little inconvenient, 3 boats in a 2 boat slip

The other guy has a huge boat, and he needs every inch of room he currently has to get out of his slip. He needs the slip across from his (currently empty) to get out of his.

So he was hoping I'd be willing to take that slip (which is only a few slips down from my current one) cos with me in there, he should have just enough room to manouvre. And I have no problems moving my boat a little to give him some more room (if only cos he can crush me haha). Anything bigger then my boat, and he's locked in ....

And I just learned that the smaller boats (6-9 meter) that are there can stay, so there is no reason why they wouldn't allow me to take that slip, as the whole new "minimum 13 meters" reason fails for these slips.

As it appears, this would be the least stressful solution.

Possibly a medium-sized gratuity added for the manager's assistance with the move ????

I am cheering for you LB

Lizzy Belle · 28-03-2016, 14:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

What I propose converts your physical Ethernet port in that box into a private wireless signal

What ethernet port in what box?

There isn't anything installed on or near the new slip, and I will no longer have access to anything on my old slip, including that magic box that provides a port and signal.
That's the whole problem ...

arsenelupiga · 28-03-2016, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Bad news, Liz... so sorry to hear about it.

Something we've seen here in Oz over recent years is marinas, long established and run by folks who know and understand yotties and boats being bought by investment firms. Always bad news... suddenly the place is run by bean counters who know nothing about the sea or sailors, only the bottom line... and there ain't much you can do about it.

Much sympathy, and I hope that the wi-fi amp helps out.

Jim

one should never rely on australian marinas to live long term. Same in other countries of empire US, Canada, NZ, UK. Politics about property prices dictates it.

Much better go elsewhere. At least will have better food.

Sandero · 28-03-2016, 14:29

Lizzy can you order a DSL line of similar form an internet service provider to either the slip they give you or to a nearby friend or biz and connect a wireless wifi transmitter from there with a range to reach you boat?