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Old 09-06-2014, 23:16   #91
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Originally Posted by Adventurebound View Post

Forget about some government conspiracy to control what you do [that occurs in financial circles and elsewhere]. Air legislation covers most aspects of flying with regard to safety. What it doesn't control is lack of dicipline in adhering to safety measures. Flying at low level is for ag pilots and others who have operational reasons to do so and are trained for the hazards. Average recreational pilot has no business being there. Power lines are invisible from an a/c. An engine failure leaves you with little options where to land. A previous owner of one a/c I owned killed himself that way. If you are a betting man and you want to bet that your single engine will keep going with the other option of a fatal air crash, then you don't value your life much.
Conspiracy theories? Where did that come from?

Well, I can agree with the "average recreational pilot has no business being there" part, but, regulations do not prohibit low level operations, don't require you to be an ag pilot, nor do they require operational reasons or training to engage in such activities, as long as you do it within the applicable regs.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's illegal, or any more dangerous, given proper planning.
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Old 09-06-2014, 23:23   #92
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Can't get much insane than this kind of low altitude 'buzzing'


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Old 09-06-2014, 23:37   #93
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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Originally Posted by Ron Rico View Post
Conspiracy theories? Where did that come from?

Well, I can agree with the "average recreational pilot has no business being there" part, but, regulations do not prohibit low level operations, don't require you to be an ag pilot, nor do they require operational reasons or training to engage in such activities, as long as you do it within the applicable regs.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's illegal, or any more dangerous, given proper planning.

Conspiracy theories come from other posts with regard to perceived unjustified government regulation. Low level flying is below 500 ft agl and requires permission and not familiar if training requirements are needed-silly if they arn't. I doubt the guy in the video had that, and even if he did, why fly in a hazardous envirement for entertainment purposes? Once you get below power line height you are playing russian roulette.
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Old 10-06-2014, 00:03   #94
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Like I said in another post, it isn't buzzing if you land it. lol

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Old 10-06-2014, 00:17   #95
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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Like I said in another post, it isn't buzzing if you land it. lol


What did he have for breakfast? There is a short field landing technique described to me where you just stall the a/c on final power off and drop like a rock and just before hitting the ground apply full power which momentarily unstalls the a/c, also with the help of ground effect. It's a very hard landing but gets you in a tight spot. How you fly back out???
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Old 10-06-2014, 00:35   #96
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

Get some utubes from the stol landing/takeoff contests in Alaska and you can watch the boys doing their thing.
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Old 10-06-2014, 00:48   #97
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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Originally Posted by Adventurebound View Post
What did he have for breakfast? There is a short field landing technique described to me where you just stall the a/c on final power off and drop like a rock and just before hitting the ground apply full power which momentarily unstalls the a/c, also with the help of ground effect. It's a very hard landing but gets you in a tight spot. How you fly back out???
That is Steve Henry from Idaho. He has taken the turbo from the smaller displacement Rotax 914 (115 hp) and plumbed it to the larger N/A 912 (100 hp), getting about 140 hp. When the plane only weighs around 700 lbs and has 20" of gear travel, you can pretty much land anyplace.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:06   #98
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

This is a plane that we saw at our local, and very small, airfield last week. It is a Stinson Voyager that he has restored. We sent the guy who owns it the photos and he said that next time he is down here he will take us for a spin.









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Old 10-06-2014, 06:33   #99
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Nice plane, and beautiful country.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:55   #100
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Originally Posted by Adventurebound View Post

Low level flying is below 500 ft agl and requires permission and not familiar if training requirements are needed-silly if they arn't. I doubt the guy in the video had that, and even if he did, why fly in a hazardous envirement for entertainment purposes? Once you get below power line height you are playing russian roulette.
Requires permission from whom?

Thousands of hours flying, hundreds and hundreds both low level or tight formation, and the only time I've had to get permission was at FAA sanctioned air shows (and then all they wanted to see was my FAST card for the formation flying), or of course, when the tower gives me the old "cleared for the option".

Just like driving a car is a hazardous endeavor, so in flying in any environment, whether low level, formation, or just going from A to B for a hundred dollar hamburger. All you can do is be aware, plan for the worst, maintain situational awareness, and do your best planning to minimize risk. I fear the other driver in a car, or the recreational pilot out driving his airplane like he would a car, completely absorbed in his regs and GPS more than I do flying low level.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:58   #101
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

If you go fast enough "they" can't get your tail number and the shock cloud helps to cover it up.

Love a rooster tail from a plane over the water!

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Old 10-06-2014, 07:00   #102
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Originally Posted by Coops View Post
This is a plane that we saw at our local, and very small, airfield last week. It is a Stinson Voyager that he has restored. We sent the guy who owns it the photos and he said that next time he is down here he will take us for a spin.

Coops.
Coops - My second airplane was a 108. Absolutely one of the nicest, most docile airplanes I've flown. I loved it and should have never let it go. If you ever get the chance to go fly it, do it! We used to pack it with camping gear or a picnic basket and go land on remote strips. Tons of fun, economical to fly, and lovely to look at.
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:07   #103
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Re: Really cool plane -

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500 feet is not mast height. What I checked was FAA rules-google minimum height flying over popuated area. I have come from a forum where I hammered pilots day and night for things like you did. Some get it, some don't, and some die.
Off hand, I remember reading a few NTSB reports of people killed buzzing. One kid buzzed his house, didn't climb fast enough, and flew into a mountain. The others lost control due to various factors and didn't have the altitude to recover, maybe an engine failure?

I refused to fly with people that brag about buzzing or doing other stupid crap. I met them off and on, I immediately disregarded everything they said and put them on my "do not fly" list. You know the type, they brag about all sorts of stuff, like flying into known ice without deicing equipment or acrobatics in aircraft that aren't in that category, etc, the "hangar heros". There are too many NTSB reports with fatal results by people doing that kind of garbage.

This isn't daddy government telling you what to do, this is using your brain. If you fly low, your chances of hitting something are significantly increased and you don't have altitude to recover from situations. It happens and people die because of it, when it's largely a show of arrogance that can be avoided. Yes, flying has risks (I wouldn't call it "dangerous"), but part of being safe is mitigating those risks and not being an idiot. I don't care if you have 30,000 hours or 20, the rules of the air don't change and buzzing fits into the "stupid pilot tricks" category.

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And I came here to get away from idiot pilots
Me too...The only decent pilot board I remember was Beechtalk, the others (AOPA especially)...

I have to say this, though, the AOPA board is the only reason I have my medical. I own a very large debt of gratitude for some of the people there, one in particular.

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Originally Posted by keepondancin View Post
Why has this forum become so critical of everything?
I agree with you that some people are overly critical here, that's just the internet, but in this case, they are right.

It's akin to beating off a lee shore about 50 feet off the rocks, intentionally and for the "thrill". You might make it, you might end up on the rocks, but using good judgement wouldn't have put you there in the first place. If everything goes right, great, but if something goes wrong, you are in trouble.

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Originally Posted by wellin View Post
Any one that thinks its dangerous to fly low passes doent understand planes. The fact is its dangerous as soon as the engine is started. A guy i know just bought a T6 last week, took off engine quit 45 seconds later and crashed about a mile from here. Both prevous owner and new owner dead.
The engine issue is a strawman.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:05   #104
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

"...and he said that next time he is down here he will take us for a spin."
Coops, when a pilot tells you he'll take you for a spin, it might not mean what you think. Either way, it would be a fun ride.
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Old 10-06-2014, 08:23   #105
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Re: Really Cool Plane -

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reminds me...Before my days of sail, we had twin-outboard Ski-Boats. We were off Cape Town one calm oily-sea day. An Avro Shackleton buzzed us about 150' direct overhead.

My then Girlfriend, (now wife) went berzerk with excitement, jumping and waving, clearly the pilot saw this, he did a long slow turn and ran at us again. Being a Maritime Recon plane, they were used to flying looooow. He roared direct overhead and I swear I felt the pressure wave in ground-effect, we actually ducked by reflex. The aircraft made ripples in the water, and the sound of four Rolls Royce V12 Merlin engines as he climbed out was incredible, the smell of the Avcat101, aaahh, I would never report him, it was too much fun. This might be the actual plane....
The college I went too was built on an old WWII air field and one runway had been fenced off from campus to use as a GA air port. One week a B17 and B24 flew in on a tour. I could not get on the planes but when they went to take off I was and the end of the runway listening to them power up. AMAZING.

Listening and FEELING those engines was a once in a lifetime experience. They took off and buzzed the airport a few times before heading out. I have photos somewhere but the negative are so old I bet they are degrading.

A couple of years ago, a B17 flew into an airport near us. My oldest and I went down to see the plane. We ended up talking with people and before we knew it the plane was powering up to take off to do flying tours! Ahh! We had wanted to go on the plane for a tour. We watched the plane take off and again the sound and feeling of the engines was awesome.

We went back the next day to get on the plane. Finally. Only took me a few decades. It was early in the morning but the sun was up as was the humidity. The plane was like an oven and I was in shorts and a polo shirt. That plane must have been a living hell to be on in the south Pacific. Trying to fit through the hatches was a learning experience. How the crew was able to move through the plane with all of their flight gear is still a mystery to me. Some of the men touring the plane were to, shall I be kind and say, to large, to get from the aft part of the plan through the bomb bay to the forward cabins. How men bailed out of the nose hatches is a mystery as well. I guess you can find a way if the alternative is dying.

Eventually, the planed loaded up and took off. We left and noticed that the B17 was flying over a local lake. The people on the lake had a special day seeing that plane fly over them.

To fly on the plane was $400 a person. I saw a family of four sign up. Next time that plane is in the area, I am flying on the plane.

Later,
Dan
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