Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-06-2009, 22:29   #1
Registered User
 
Chrisc's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whangamata. New Zealand
Boat: H28
Posts: 210
Question for NZers

It seems that every time we go out for a cruise we come across yet another new DoC Signpost (Department of Conservation for non NZ residents) that might be paraphrased "We've released some of our darling little Kiwis on this island, so bugger off."
Whilst its probably all fine and dandy that they like to preserve this nondescript little bird, is it acceptable that DoC take ever more tracts of land on ever more islands to do so, especially when doing so limits the rights of people from enjoying these islands? We've seen quite a few car bumper stickers since arriving at Gulf Harbour for the winter - 'DoC-A blot on the landscape.' 'DoC need docking.' and the most popular, 'DoC-an unwanted pest.' I tend to agree with the sentiments. What are the opinions about increasing areas of our cruising grounds becoming 'off limits' due to conservation reasons?
__________________

__________________
Chrisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-06-2009, 23:06   #2
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
It might not be forever...

I'm not from Long White Cloud Land but from here it looks like a much nicer proposition than the one we've got here which basically says that you can run off the local wildlife with your dog, cat, fox, rabbit, 4wd, trail bike etc. and when it's gone we can give the land to developers.

In Oz I think we have extincted more species than anywhere else in the world.

There is always the chance that the Kiwi population will rebound and the need for reserves will lessen.
__________________

__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 00:37   #3
Registered User
 
Chrisc's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whangamata. New Zealand
Boat: H28
Posts: 210
I take the point, but what I (and most NZers?) would like to see is a little more balance from DoC. The fact is, less than 1% of us have ever seen a kiwi in the wild, not because its not there but because its nocturnal and spends its entire existance scratching about in the undergrowth for bugs. (What a great national symbol.) By all means preserve the bird, and the snails, wetas and all of DoC's other interests, but not by locking up ever increasing areas of, and in fact entire islands that now become out of bounds to cruisers.
Here is a true story:
A couple of years ago my wife and I were kayaking in the Marlborough Sounds. It was a 40km trip and we were caught out in strong winds which generated such a short steep sea that the boats were continually swept and the water was forcing its way under the spray skirts and we were at risk of sinking. The only option was to divert and put onto the beach at Maud Island so we could bail out the kayaks. This we did, and were ashore at the low tide mark for not more than 10 minutes. Now Maud Island is a DoC reserve and they got to hear of it, and as a result we were hounded by them for weeks, threatened with prosecution, fines, imprisonment, the whole works because we have may have disturbed some little spotted kiwi doing whatever it is that they do. The fact we were in imminent danger of drowning was immaterial to them.
This is why I consider DoC a department that is out of control, and it will likely be to the detriment of the NZ boating public.
Well, that's today's big rant - time to go look at the evening. I think I'll put a few rounds of birdshot in the old.22 and see if I can't bag me a couple of them kiwis....
__________________
Chrisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 00:56   #4
Registered User
 
Golden Wattle's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne. OZ.
Boat: Dreaming
Posts: 69
Well, that's today's big rant - time to go look at the evening. I think I'll put a few rounds of birdshot in the old.22 and see if I can't bag me a couple of them kiwis....

You could help us Aussies out & start with a few All Blacks.
All Blacks...Rugby Players.


Cheers
__________________
"He has a Kangaroo loose in the top paddock":
Golden Wattle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 01:04   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 945
I agree with that story as if anyone is in obvious danger and cannot go anywhere else, then they should give considerations for such rare scenarios. Meaning, it is provable with a paper trail of weather conditions of the date in question, etc..

At least it isn't as bad as some parts of the States. I've read, seen many parts of the US populous being displaced because a similar group discovered some rare worm or beetle and placed the entire neighborhood under a national preserve rating. The government would offer a fraction of the true worth of the value of the house or nothing at all!!!

I'm with you, there should be some common sense or middle ground with these people/groups.
__________________
shadow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 02:30   #6
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Trismus 37
Posts: 760
One of the problems with DoC is that they are very aquisitive, any land they can get their hands on it accepted. BUT they are so under resourced that they can only look after a fraction of the area that they control. In the average DoC mind there is no place for anything that isn't / wasn't indigenous, they ARE control freaks and only enlist the publics assistance when it will help to push for more control. ie. the Hectors dolphin, they use spurious out of date statistics and anecdotal reports that mr average public wouldn't have a clue as to whether they are correct.
Remember that a Kiwi only eats roots shoots and leaves and does it all in the dark!
__________________
Steve Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 03:27   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Oh good golly Chrisc, don't start me or I'll make the anchor wars and the mono V's multi threads seem like a kindergarten tea party.

Quote:
Whilst its probably all fine and dandy that they like to preserve this nondescript little bird, is it acceptable that DoC take ever more tracts of land on ever more islands to do so, especially when doing so limits the rights of people from enjoying these islands?
In short - No, No and a really big No.
DOC do need DOCking. And I don't mean docking as in pulling along side a wharf, I mean the rubber band around male only bits until they wizen and fall off type of docking.

While I do admire the fanatical extremism of most of their staff, they are getting out of hand in a big way.

A perfect example is the latest brain fade idea on Motuhie Island. For those who don't know Motuhie is a small island 5 miles from the heart of Auckland City, a city with 1 million people* and the island has 2 great beaches which are very accessible and very popular. On a good day the Island could have 1000's of people on it. We are talking a lump of land only a mile long and 100's of feet wide. I vaguely remember reading something a while ago that suggested there were 1.6 boats per household NZ wide so we do all boat a lot.

What does DOC do? Release a pile of bloody Kiwis (the bird type) on it. How bloody stupid can you get.

They already have most of the Islands in the Gulf and most get that busy sometimes they have 4 maybe 5 people on them per week. Release the birds on those you raving idiots. Many of the Islands already have kiwis on them now anyway. A couple of these islands are off-limits to the human Kiwis without permits. Now almost every island is off-limits to animals i.e dogs and cats etc.

Don't get me wrong I really do love our little quirky bird and have zero issue in trying to get the population back up again but we do need to use more common bloody sense while we do it.

That micro rant was only on Kiwis and a few Islands. The rant about the rest of the dumb ***** they do is worse and a lot longer so I'll spare you the grief but it would continue along the same theme.

I think you get the gist of my feelings regarding the idiocy and getting way out of hand activities that I see invading DOC (Department of Conservation)

* - I know many are now going "1mil people isn't a city"
Well it is here and it's our biggest by a long way so just calm down and please don't laugh too hard
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 03:34   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
Talbot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brighton, UK
Boat: Privilege 37
Posts: 3,579
Images: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
* - I know many are now going "1mil people isn't a city"
Well it is here and it's our biggest by a long way so just calm down and please don't laugh too hard
I thought Sydney was the largest kiwi city ???
__________________
"Be wary of strong drink. It can make you shoot at tax collectors - and miss."
Robert A Heinlein
Talbot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 04:01   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 275
I have already ranted against DOC on another thread here and got accused of not being a real a kiwi because of that.Its good to see others are aware of the danger to our democracy and freedom.
__________________
nonam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 04:13   #10
Registered User
 
Chrisc's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whangamata. New Zealand
Boat: H28
Posts: 210
O.K. - Your responses would indicate that DoC is a department that is going to increasingly impact negatively on the boating fraternity. I am also gratified to note that you do not consider my comments indicate a raving rednecked environmental rapist and wildlife hater (as has been suggested) and just because when I first went to sea 55 years ago I was an ordinary seaman and gunner's mate on a whaler...&nbsp; <br>However, I would like to do something about DoC. I did write to my MP a short while ago about the restricted landing on the Gulf islands, but did not even receive an acknowlegement. (what a surprise!) I do not want to just roll over on this.<br>Where to from here?<br>
__________________
Chrisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 15:03   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 275
I have scratched my brain about this and come up with nothing.It seems to me ,when it comes to government regulation,kiwis are sheeple.(Look how they dumped the kiwisaver thing on employers and nobody complained).I think the only hope is that if enough individuals continue to bad mouth Doc a "groundswell" will be created.
__________________
nonam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 16:29   #12
Registered User
 
Chrisc's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whangamata. New Zealand
Boat: H28
Posts: 210
Creating a groundswell of public opinion against DoC will be a problem.
The trouble is most normal people live in a nice little house in the suburbs, go to work, mow the lawns on Saturday and go out in the boat fishing for a few hours on Sunday, so they are not really impacted by DoC wanting to turn NZ into some sort of pre-european theme park.
Apart from the mainland issues (which are annoying the crap out of the tramping fraternity) there are not enough people impacted by DoC's island and maritime programs to make enough noise about it. In any event, who's going to listen to a bunch of loonies who opt out to go living on boats and go cruising?
I'll have a think about it - perhaps something on the internet and see what the response is?
__________________
Chrisc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 18:00   #13
...

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Currently NZ
Boat: Buizen 48
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by nonam View Post
It seems to me ,when it comes to government regulation, kiwis are sheeple.
I might be forgiven for thinking, based on my personal experience here, the above is paying them a compliment ... and you can include matters other than just government regulations. Their pathetic acceptance of the:
  • Blatantly biased Family Court system
  • Ineffective "Injustice" system that penalizes victims, let's individuals commit multiple offences and bails them over a dozen times, and releases killers out after just a few years
  • Disgraceful National "leaking homes" issue
  • Obstacle producing RMA
  • Exploitation by the Aussie Banks, and a handiful of Petrol companies
  • Making it a criminal offence to reasonably discipline children, while a select minority goes on killing them at their leisure
  • Massive minor (theft) and major (homicide) crime for a country of only 4 million and "no guns" law
  • Under-resourced and inefficient Public Health System (woman has cancer, send her over to Oz for treatment .. or make her wait 9 months for treatment)
  • Allowing of Public Schools to demand supposedly 'voluntary' contributions from parents or your kid gets 'black-balled'
  • Allowing of individuals to remain "On the Dole" for decades and rewards unwed mothers to have more kids
  • A National police force that is primarily used to generate revenue via traffic offences instead of reducing crime
DOC is just the "tip of the iceberg" ......

"Sheeple"??? Given the above "acceptances" IMHO more accurately "geldings".....
__________________
BlueSovereign is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 18:26   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 275
Yes,I agree with everything on that list with medical and law and order being the most important.With all those problems why are my taxes being used to keep DOC people on Raoul ,Auckland and Campbel islands to stop me from going there?
__________________
nonam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-06-2009, 20:00   #15
Registered User
 
Knowazark's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Boat: Davidson 46, 14m LOA
Posts: 159
Images: 3
As has been pointed out earlier, DoC have great aspirations but little or no money. This means that they attract staff who are very enthusiastic and tend to be idealistic, many of whom are fresh out of university or polytech - the only ones who will work for little money. Many of their senior staff are "dyed in the wool" greenies or have a seriously green bent - to the detriment of humans, development and general technological advancement. Some of these people seriously believe that the best thing for Planet Earth would be wiping out humans (but I note that they're not volunteering to go first).

DoC is just one example of run-away beauracracy and govt meddling which is tolerated because of ignorance and misinformation. Frustrates the heck outa me.

Trying to fight it is like trying to poke blue smoke up a cat's backside with a knitting needle.
__________________

__________________
Knowazark is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
KEEL/BALLAST QUESTION?? PLUS EXTRA CREDIT QUESTION ;) stephenronning Monohull Sailboats 3 21-03-2009 04:19
Another Question Acadia Deck hardware: Rigging, Sails & Hoisting 2 30-06-2008 21:28
New here, have a question ducaticole Atlantic & the Caribbean 3 17-01-2008 10:14
Have a question. jimini Liveaboard's Forum 3 07-12-2007 08:22
a question haloman Meets & Greets 18 01-12-2006 09:41



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:23.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.