Poaching vessel Thunder sinks

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I pretty much agree with you i just wont call them 'pirates' as they dont fit any definition of pirate that i know off, and they dont generally do the ramming from what ive seen. but im damn sure im pleased someone cares enough to be out there stopping the poaching.

Sea Shepherd has been (and probably still is) labeled pirates by many. I just haven't the desire to search for and post references on that!

Anyway..... Score another one for the good guys/gals of Sea Shepherd!

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by svmariane

Sea Shepherd has been (and probably still is) labeled pirates by many. I just haven't the desire to search for and post references on that!

Anyway..... Score another one for the good guys/gals of Sea Shepherd!

I certainly dont dispute that. Ive seen it many times. I simply disagree with it.

[rognvald]

There are few, if any, on this Forum that would support the illegal taking of fish in our world's oceans. However, no matter how you paint it, Sea Shepherd is simply vigilante justice outside the confines of international maritime laws. If we resort to this form of "justice?" we are acquiescing to a dangerous and illegal precedent that smacks of the lawlessness of the Salem witch trials, illegal hangings of Blacks in the U.S., and the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. The answer is not vigilantism, but rather a concerted effort by countries worldwide to protect their natural resources and enforce existing local, national and international laws. The difference between Civilization and Anarchy is that civilized people/nations, unlike anarchy, live by codified and enforceable laws. Good luck and safe sailing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

There are few, if any, on this Forum that would support the illegal taking of fish in our world's oceans. However, no matter how you paint it, Sea Shepherd is simply vigilante justice outside the confines of international maritime laws. If we resort to this form of "justice?" we are acquiescing to a dangerous and illegal precedent that smacks of the lawlessness of the Salem witch trials, illegal hangings of Blacks in the U.S., and the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. The answer is not vigilantism, but rather a concerted effort by countries worldwide to protect their natural resources and enforce existing local, national and international laws. The difference between Civilization and Anarchy is that civilized people/nations, unlike anarchy, live by codified and enforceable laws. Good luck and safe sailing.

Fantastic in Theory.. but ducked and dodged time and time again by the Powers that be.. so a complete Farce in reality.
And.. to the best of my knowledge neither Greenpeace nor Sea Shepard have drowned, burnt at the stake, crucified or gassed anyone to date..
Mind they have had members murdered by 'Legitimate Government'.. so I guess it just boils down to which side of the fence you sit....

[Longjohn]

The Bob Barker? Really.

[SaltyMonkey]

Theres no vigilante justice. He simply followed and reported it. The report you see highlights that the pirate ship was scuttled by their own crew.

NICE JOB SEA SHEPHERD!!!

[SaltyMonkey]

Nice job boaty!

[rognvald]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Fantastic in Theory.. but ducked and dodged time and time again by the Powers that be.. so a complete Farce in reality.
And.. to the best of my knowledge neither Greenpeace nor Sea Shepard have drowned, burnt at the stake, crucified or gassed anyone to date..
Mind they have had members murdered by 'Legitimate Government'.. so I guess it just boils down to which side of the fence you sit....

Phil,
The "civilized" countries of the world do enforce their laws concerning legal catches vs. poaching. Examples are the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc. It is only in Third World countries that laws are ignored--the Philipines are a good example. The references to the abuse of vigilantism I mentioned earlier is not an indictment of Sea Shepherd for those particular historic examples but rather the runaway effects of lawlessness when taken to its extreme. I have never supported the tactics of SS but am sympathetic with their environmental/conservatorial principles. We, as responsible humans, have a choice: Civilization or Anarchy. I would prefer to live in the former rather than the latter world. Good luck and safe sailing.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Phil,
The "civilized" countries of the world do enforce their laws concerning legal catches vs. poaching. Examples are the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc. It is only in Third World countries that laws are ignored--the Philipines are a good example. The references to the abuse of vigilantism I mentioned earlier is not an indictment of Sea Shepherd for those particular historic examples but rather the runaway effects of lawlessness when taken to its extreme. I have never supported the tactics of SS but am sympathetic with their environmental/conservatorial principles. We, as responsible humans, have a choice: Civilization or Anarchy. I would prefer to live in the former rather than the latter world. Good luck and safe sailing.

Actually I was referring to the overall environmental picture being ignored.. time and time again..
As to the fish quota's.. of course they do.. they **** themselves when the boats went out one season and there were no Cod.. as for tuna.. remember massive Tuna being landed in Spain when they did their 'runs'.. these days 6-7ft is regarded as good.. just 20yrs after.
Does Spain enforce fishing quota's.. token net checks arranged in advance..
How about the love of shooting anything that flies..
I know 3 countries in the south EU that blast every migrating bird out of the sky they can.. from Greenfinches upwards..
So forgive me if I do not go with your 'The 1st World' is so much superior to the 3rd.
Reality and what one chooses to see are usually in opposite corners.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by rognvald

There are few, if any, on this Forum that would support the illegal taking of fish in our world's oceans. However, no matter how you paint it, Sea Shepherd is simply vigilante justice outside the confines of international maritime laws. If we resort to this form of "justice?" we are acquiescing to a dangerous and illegal precedent that smacks of the lawlessness of the Salem witch trials, illegal hangings of Blacks in the U.S., and the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. The answer is not vigilantism, but rather a concerted effort by countries worldwide to protect their natural resources and enforce existing local, national and international laws. The difference between Civilization and Anarchy is that civilized people/nations, unlike anarchy, live by codified and enforceable laws. Good luck and safe sailing.

Rubbish with respect

Rubbish that most people would not support the illegal taking of fish. It's not a question about what is 'legal' taking of fish. The super trawlers are all legal and many many people support them.

Rubbish because 'poaching' is illegal and it is the 'illegal' that SS are policing.

And Rubbish, because your "civilized people/nations living by codified and enforceable laws ' ARE NOT policing them. Not even a first world nation like Australia police them.

The real world is not so naive.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by rognvald

Phil,
The "civilized" countries of the world do enforce their laws concerning legal catches vs. poaching. Examples are the U.S., Canada, Great Britain, France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc. It is only in Third World countries that laws are ignored--the Philipines are a good example. The references to the abuse of vigilantism I mentioned earlier is not an indictment of Sea Shepherd for those particular historic examples but rather the runaway effects of lawlessness when taken to its extreme. I have never supported the tactics of SS but am sympathetic with their environmental/conservatorial principles. We, as responsible humans, have a choice: Civilization or Anarchy. I would prefer to live in the former rather than the latter world. Good luck and safe sailing.

The Philippines is NOT a third world country and neither is Australia. WE (Australia) don't police poaching by organizations or by other countries. We do police local jurisdictional poaching, but we as a Nation don't go after organized large scale poaching from other countries. Not since the Viarsa-1 in 2003 and the expense of that 8 week chase by the Navy.

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by rognvald

There are few, if any, on this Forum that would support the illegal taking of fish in our world's oceans. However, no matter how you paint it, Sea Shepherd is simply vigilante justice outside the confines of international maritime laws. If we resort to this form of "justice?" we are acquiescing to a dangerous and illegal precedent that smacks of the lawlessness of the Salem witch trials, illegal hangings of Blacks in the U.S., and the pogroms of Russia and Eastern Europe. The answer is not vigilantism, but rather a concerted effort by countries worldwide to protect their natural resources and enforce existing local, national and international laws. The difference between Civilization and Anarchy is that civilized people/nations, unlike anarchy, live by codified and enforceable laws. Good luck and safe sailing.

That whole Salem witch trials (etc.) bit is very much a Straw Man argument. To the point at hand, I repeat: That the Viking was "arrested" by Indonesia shows that international law CAN be effective but it would NOT have been applied had not Sea Shepherd done the hard work.

There are international laws, true, but who enforces those laws OUTSIDE of their own territorial waters? We haven't a World Police Force.

{Note: Please oh please, oh Flying Spaghetti Monster, don't allow this thread to drift into US military outreach/over-reach/activism or what-have-you. For or against. Deny or claim. Thank You. Ramen.}

Sea Shepherd did good. The "Bandit 6" are ALL now out of service.
ALL of them. Thank you, Sea Shepherd.

James

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

Rubbish with respect

Rubbish that most people would not support the illegal taking of fish. It's not a question about what is 'legal' taking of fish. The super trawlers are all legal and many many people support them.

Rubbish because 'poaching' is illegal and it is the 'illegal' that SS are policing.

And Rubbish, because your "civilized people/nations living by codified and enforceable laws ' ARE NOT policing them. Not even a first world nation like Australia police them.

The real world is not so naive.

^^^ This. ^^^

[svmariane]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Fantastic in Theory.. but ducked and dodged time and time again by the Powers that be.. so a complete Farce in reality.
And.. to the best of my knowledge neither Greenpeace nor Sea Shepard have drowned, burnt at the stake, crucified or gassed anyone to date..
Mind they have had members murdered by 'Legitimate Government'.. so I guess it just boils down to which side of the fence you sit....

I remember that: Rainbow Warrior, Auckland harbour, New Zealand.

[rognvald]

"How about the love of shooting anything that flies..
I know 3 countries in the south EU that blast every migrating bird out of the sky they can.. from Greenfinches upwards." Boatman


Phil,
I have been an upland bird hunter and duck hunter my entire life. The Migratory Bird Laws and those that apply to upland game: wild pheasant, quail, partridge,grouse, turkey, deer, elk, bear, etc. are strictly enforced in the U.S. and any violators are subject to confiscation of guns, equipment, trucks and boats in addition to heavy fines. In my 50 years of hunting, I have never seen any poaching and, rarely, hunters taking illegal/excessive bag limits. In regards to US Fisheries, try fishing illegally in the Florida Keys, Gulf of Mexico or North Atlantic American waters. They are heavily patrolled and well-enforced. And, although I'm not speaking from personal experience, I doubt Central and North European countries are much different. However, when I lived in Mexico, poaching of all game was a common experience. The law, if caught, was the "mordida." Good luck and safe sailing.