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Old 21-12-2008, 04:54   #76
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As I will be away flying internationally for 2 weeks starting next Saturday you will have to do much better than that to make up for us less anal carbon footprinters air miles.

I suggest that you will need to increase your distance to 20 km and do it 3 times a day running it. You will also need to kill the dog as it has four carbon footprints so quite a drain on the atmosphere - maybe get a goldfish which has no footprints at all. Your "mty" daughter must throw away her bike and run with a knapsack on her back - also must give up eating the mty and eat just vegies instead.

Thank you for your kind cooperation. You and your daughter have been entered into the International Green Compliance Monitoring Program to ensure your compliance with all relevant activist policies.

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Enjoy your addictive bliss to the liquid hydrocarbon while you can. Your economy has no chance of long term recovery until you come to terms with the unsustainability of the present system. Meanwhile I'l keep my cholestrol and blood pressure down
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Old 21-12-2008, 05:12   #77
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Enjoy your addictive bliss to the liquid hydrocarbon while you can. Your economy has no chance of long term recovery until you come to terms with the unsustainability of the present system. Meanwhile I'l keep my cholestrol and blood pressure down
Every living thing on this planet uses all available resources as much as it can. It is the way of all life. Humans as a whole are no different. Populations are controlled by their resources as they are consumed. When the resources dwindle the population follows. No living thing is exempt. That is the way it is on this planet anyway.

The only question is who decides what resources and how much each is allowed to consume. That starts within our own families and goes all the way to global conflicts.

It's a jungle out there and the golden rule applies now just as it has since little shells had special value...........wait........they still do.................

Humans are not as smart as they think they are.
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Old 21-12-2008, 06:04   #78
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Every living thing on this planet uses all available resources as much as it can. It is the way of all life. Humans as a whole are no different...
... The only question is who decides what resources and how much each is allowed to consume. That starts within our own families and goes all the way to global conflicts ...
... Humans are not as smart as they think they are.
What makes men unique in the animal kingdom is that he, as an individual, has evolved the faculty to observe, to plan ahead, to think, and to judge for himself. It is this rational capacity which make man different from beasts.

We are all fixed with instincts, that have come about through the long process of evolution. These instincts are impulses which stimulate us to certain types of action - action taken without prior experience, or prior thought. To be better than mere beasts, it is necessary for man to conduct his life on something other than just on a strictly instinctual basis. Man, in becoming civilized, must take control of himself.

(Note: I say of himself, not of others, or of nature)

The fundamental biological nature of man has not changed since late paleolithic times. The same arrangement of 20,000 pairs of genes still controls his physical development and his physiological reactions; the implements he made during the Stone Age still fit his hands; the ancient drives which shaped his cultural evolution are still operative; the rituals and symbolic representations which he performed in the paleolithic caves are still meaningful to him.

But while Homo Sapiens has remained essentially the same; the manifestations of his life, and the structure of his societies, are endlessly changing, never repeating themselves identically. Therein lies our (hopefully) salvation.
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Old 21-12-2008, 08:09   #79
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What makes men unique in the animal kingdom is that he, as an individual, has evolved the faculty to observe, to plan ahead, to think, and to judge for himself. It is this rational capacity which make man different from beasts.

We are all fixed with instincts, that have come about through the long process of evolution. These instincts are impulses which stimulate us to certain types of action - action taken without prior experience, or prior thought. To be better than mere beasts, it is necessary for man to conduct his life on something other than just on a strictly instinctual basis. Man, in becoming civilized, must take control of himself.

(Note: I say of himself, not of others, or of nature)

The fundamental biological nature of man has not changed since late paleolithic times. The same arrangement of 20,000 pairs of genes still controls his physical development and his physiological reactions; the implements he made during the Stone Age still fit his hands; the ancient drives which shaped his cultural evolution are still operative; the rituals and symbolic representations which he performed in the paleolithic caves are still meaningful to him.

But while Homo Sapiens has remained essentially the same; the manifestations of his life, and the structure of his societies, are endlessly changing, never repeating themselves identically. Therein lies our (hopefully) salvation.
In my view what you say cannot be called incorrect but when I look around I see no difference between the human "animal" and what you call "beasts".

Planning and thinking ahead..........sure.......and look at the end product to date.

Genetic change to remove instinct (reproduction for one) is what is needed then......hmmm.
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Old 21-12-2008, 08:19   #80
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What makes men unique in the animal kingdom is that he, as an individual, has evolved the faculty to observe, to plan ahead, to think, and to judge for himself. It is this rational capacity which make man different from beasts.
Well said! Thank you.
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Old 21-12-2008, 16:43   #81
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Proof at last

if
Originally Posted by GordMay
What makes men unique in the animal kingdom is that he, as an individual, has evolved the faculty to observe, to plan ahead, to think, and to judge for himself. It is this rational capacity which make man different from beasts.

What does that say for leaders that continue stuffing their pockets at the cost of our planet? Someone once called it a crime against future generations and proposed treating those responsable like the criminals they are. Would be interesting to see how that would effect things. I for one am sick of buying a gadget that costs at best $3 to make in packaging that I know must cost twice that, just to make the box look bigger and justify charging $100 for it. Then some pocket stuffer tells me I have to clean up his mess? Right! It's like good anti fouling paints. I will stop using them as soon as the worlds navies do the same.
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Old 21-12-2008, 17:19   #82
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Does that mean that the moniker "homo Sapien" is a misnomer?
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Old 21-12-2008, 17:34   #83
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No comment other than to suggest you have a look at the thinkers and planners in Washington for the past 8 years.
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Old 22-12-2008, 05:35   #84
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Plastic Bags

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Most of this is a crock. Paying 5 or 10 cents for a plastic bag at the store does two things . It makes someone 5 or 10 cents richer and still adds plastic to the waste stream.
Actually, I have noticed an almost disappearance of plastic shopping bags littering the vacant lots and roadways around here after the stores started selling them. The bought ones are a heaver grade and it doesn't take many to make a pile worth enough money to be attractive to the unemployed. When I open the boot to get a canvass bag and they are gone and I buy a plastic bag it is good enough to reuse several times whereas the free ones were so weak that they were almost useless.
I notice that the vast marjority of the middle class uses canvass bags. The poor use plastic. They don't always buy them! But they aren't littering the ground!
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Old 22-12-2008, 07:51   #85
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Unfortunately most of mankind are "Idiots", (Of course no one who is involved with the "Cruisers Forum") just look at the fools driving around town in Hummers with the music blaring out the windows. Has anyone taken a look at the public school system in America lately? Maybe through another million years of evolution humans will evolve to such a state that their entire waking lives aren't spent in the pursuit of what is best for them and how much crap they can acquire in a lifetime. Maybe in another million years of evolution people will finally start focusing on what is best for the collective good of all the creatures on the planet. Unfortunately (Or fortunately) depending upon your view of things, I don't think we will make it to that point.

If the ills of the world are left for society to sort out don't hold your breath. People as a function will generally take the easy way out, (Just throw my plastic bag filled with garbage out and it will magically disappear). In my unenlightened opinion, until such a period of enlightenment arrives, the government has to step in to try and do what is best for society. It may not always be the best solution but if things are left to the individual and for profit (Greed) corporations what do you think will happen?
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Old 22-12-2008, 08:13   #86
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Then some pocket stuffer tells me I have to clean up his mess? Right! It's like good anti fouling paints. I will stop using them as soon as the worlds navies do the same.
I know the feeling. I live in a college town in the US, and when the local football team is playing a night game, I can read a newspaper blocks away just from the light spilling out of the stadium. And in that newspaper is an article telling me that I can save the planet by unplugging my cellphone charger when not in use.

Silly? Sure. But that doesn't mean we can stop thinking and acting in ways that will help our environment, however much we may disagree about the particulars. This rational capacity of ours comes with rights and obligations both, and it is foolish to disregard either.

BTW, let's not forget that when we talk about "saving the planet", we're talking about saving it for us. We are the ones who want the clean air and water and the freedom to enjoy them. Planets don't really care. (Well, except for that one in the Beta Andromeda system, but that's a whole different situation.)

Happy Holidays.
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Old 22-12-2008, 14:08   #87
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What makes men unique in the animal kingdom is that he, as an individual, has evolved the faculty to observe, to plan ahead, to think, and to judge for himself. It is this rational capacity which make man different from beasts.
I think you are stretching the bow much more than a bit if you are claiming "rational capacity" for all in mankind.

One only has to read these forums to see that many are irrationally frightened of plastic bags (they may need to clean there own back yards up but in the country where I live it is very rare to see a "wild" plastic bag), the occasional poops in the sea (I wonder if they realise they are at much greater danger from disease from using the marina toilets?), frightened of drinking water unless it comes out of a bottle, etc, etc.

Mankind will always be plagued with red flag wavers because of the need of some to be mesmerized by "potential" for disaster (as the media knows a play on stories of "potential" international epidemics, necrobacillosis, etc always go down well), or to take what they consider is the moral high ground on behalf of all mankind, or they are frightened of technological change (or indeed any change), or simply because they have a social need to be identified with others with a "cause".

Animals in the wild do not do any of this (and if they are born with such a fatal deficiency for life in the wild they do not survive). Domesticated animals can show irrational behaviour, dogs particularly but that is adopted or brought about by the behaviours of their human masters.
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Old 22-12-2008, 14:51   #88
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And your point is?
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Old 22-12-2008, 15:40   #89
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You think it's a stretch you concede man's POTENTIAL for rationality (rational capacity)?
Not in my neck of the woods, nor on this forum.
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Old 22-12-2008, 16:48   #90
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And your point is?
Your question is not rational - would you explain what it is that you do not understand?
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