Plastic into Oil at Home !

[Paul Elliott]

The published 80% efficiency is the ratio of the weight of the plastic fed into the machine, to the weight of the oil produced. (1 kg of plastic yields 0.8 kg of oil).

The spec sheet says the desktop unit consumes 3 kWh of electricity to convert 1 kg of plastic to oil (this takes three hours). 0.8 kg of diesel fuel contains about 32 kWh of energy, so the process "creates" about 10x the power used to run the conversion.

So, as long as the cost to collect the plastic, deal with the conversion waste, and distribute the output product doesn't wipe you out, it could be a net gain.

(you should check my math before you invest in this scheme)

[Sam Plan B]

I looked at the product website. I am not sure what kind of "oil" is produced. Is it motor oil and if so, what grade (10-w-40, etc.). Does it need further refining for practical use? Just asking.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by Sam Plan B

I looked at the product website. I am not sure what kind of "oil" is produced. Is it motor oil and if so, what grade (10-w-40, etc.). Does it need further refining for practical use? Just asking.

Look at the website a little closer.

On the left are links. One helpful one is "Q & A". Questions 2 and 3 answer yours...

On the very first page, first green banner in right column shows the "Waste Plastic Oiling System" converters. Below, the second green banner shows the "Refiner Machine for Hydrocarbon Oil".

Looks like you need both machines. The one machine converts 80% of the plastic to a waste oil. Then the refiner converts that into various oil products. Gas, diesel, kerosene and heavy oil.

-dan

[captain58sailin]

I have gotten an answer from the manufacture regarding prices.
F.O.B. Yokahama. At today's conversion.
Recyclable Plastics are:
Polypropylene (PP), Polyethylene (PE) and Polystyrene (PS).
And, Plastics should be clean before putting into our Blest Machine.
Desk top unit = $14,335, 1 kg per batch.
120 kg per day unit = $15,899 continuous duty.
240 kg per day unit = $26,326 continuous duty.
600 kg per day unit = $52,130 continuous duty.
1200 kg per day unit = $91,228 continuous duty

So for about 26,000 USD plus freight, you could remove 480 lbs of plastic from the beach & ocean per day. How much does anyone of us spend on booze & cigarettes in a years time? I have no financial interest in this company and do not know if their product is even effective. Just pointing out the possibilities. I would like to see a demonstration on plastic water bottles and six pack rings. Maybe it would be worth a trip to Japan to find out how good the equipment works.

[dacust]

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

I have gotten an answer from the manufacture regarding prices.
F.O.B. Yokahama. At today's conversion.
Recyclable Plastics are:
Polypropylene (PP), Polyethylene (PE) and Polystyrene (PS).
And, Plastics should be clean before putting into our Blest Machine.
Desk top unit = $14,335, 1 kg per batch.
120 kg per day unit = $15,899 continuous duty.
240 kg per day unit = $26,326 continuous duty.
600 kg per day unit = $52,130 continuous duty.
1200 kg per day unit = $91,228 continuous duty

So for about 26,000 USD plus freight, you could remove 480 lbs of plastic from the beach & ocean per day. How much does anyone of us spend on booze & cigarettes in a years time? I have no financial interest in this company and do not know if their product is even effective. Just pointing out the possibilities. I would like to see a demonstration on plastic water bottles and six pack rings. Maybe it would be worth a trip to Japan to find out how good the equipment works.

Since you have already contacted them, ask them about the prices for the refineries they sell. To actually make use of the oil, you'd need the refinery.

-dan

[captain58sailin]

The 20 liter unit, which processes that amount in 2.5 hours is $38,009.
The 50 liter unit,which processes that amount in 2.5 hours is $51,116.
In today's dollars. You don't need the refiner if you want to sell the raw product to a refinery, or take it back in trade. Refining oil into diesel or gasoline is not hard to do and you don't really need to pay the big bucks for their system. It would be easier to use their equipment, but not essential. I expect that they could tell which units best match up for the most efficient conversion and production. Say it takes 100k for a complete set up. Then you have to run the numbers and see if it would be cost effective over the life span of the equipment. Something that has not been factored into the equation is the cost of crude, it is a pretty sure bet that crude is going to continue to rise in price, where as the supply of garbage plastic will remain the same for the foreseeable future, so even at 80% efficiency you could actually make money. Especially if you can reduce your energy costs using alternative methods of production. Interesting idea.

[dacust]

			  kg     lbs
Plastic processed	   240	   528
Waste (20%)		    48	   105.6
1 Year waste		17,520	38,544

38 thousand pounds of waste in a year is something to consider. If really lucky, it's useful to someone who will take it from you or even pay for it. Otherwise, the cost of disposal and/or storage could be the make or break factor.

-dan

[hellosailor]

K-
"My point was that with an alternative energy setup (solar, wind, wave) provided by a charity"
You'd still have to offset the five dollars, because the charity still has to obtain the five dollars from someone. These days, at least in the US, it is common for donors to check up on the efficiency of a charity and to send money where it does the most good. If I thought a charity was wasting money on perpetual motion motions? Uhuh.

I wouldn't say that Blest is lying about their costs, but I would say they are not suprisingly forward about TOTAL costs. If someone wants to really look at their costs? You'd need to take one machine (desktop or continuous), add the refining machine, add the cost of the solar or wind power array to run them both (bear in mind, the limited kWH per day of output, plus storage batteries and controllers and transporting that all in), add the cost of gathering the plastic. How many people does it take to carry in 100kg of plastic per day? And "cleaning" that plastic? Disposing of what they've cleaned from it? How about the maintenance and ongoing operating costs of the machines? Do they need overhauling every 50 hours? 5000?

I don't see anything even vaguely resembling a real breakdown of the total costs of their system, and that's the only real number that matters.

If it makes economic sense, it can be used on the grid, in developed countries with recycling programs (lots of clean presorted plastics coming in) too.

Anyone want to run the numbers? ALL the numbers? We can be generous and assume there is zero "cost to market" the resulting fuel oil, because the locals will be consuming it on the spot for their new motorcycle delivery businesses. (No, really.) Still...anyone?

[captain58sailin]

Instead of being a nay sayer, why don't you put as much energy into exploring how it might work. They have several countries that are employing these machines. You never know until you look. Absolutely you want to be practical about the money going out. How about this, stop producing all the plastic packaging that everything comes in now a days? How about reducing the demand so the market won't be there for the plastic encased goods. Or maybe incorporate the cost of recycling into the price of the goods so it would be a zero sum loss? There are many different ways to approach the dilemma and if one is willing to find a solution there will be one.

[hellosailor]

"There are many different ways to approach the dilemma and if one is willing to find a solution there will be one. "
In my experience, just because there IS a solution, does not mean the solution will ever be used, much less get to market.

You're still typing on a 200-year-old QWERTY keyboard, designed to prevent mechanical keys from jamming, instead of a DVORAK or other new layout which might be far more efficient. Why? Because the one is the established standard, and the other is a better solution--but the market wants to stay on the standard. Even if it "costs" 20% or 30% more for keyboarding times.

Explore how it might work? Uh, not my job. Someone invented it, if they are competent at basic marketing skills they can lay that out without the need for others to do that work for them. Usually, if someone really can make the case for their product, they can lay this all out. Usually--time and time again--when they do not lay out the numbers, it is because the numbers counter their claims.

Solyndra bankruptcy in the headlines this week? And two years ago, there was a really great investment opportunity in a South African firm that had a breakthrough in doublingthe efficieny of solar panels? These two are not alone, any number of "green tech" companies have a prominent button "FOR INVESTORS" on their web sites. Way more prominent than their cost numbers.

My job? Is to say SHOW ME. I'm from Missouri. (Not.)

If they can't show me the complete numbers and the complete cost picture? That's just not true, they certainly CAN show me, the only question is whether they're WILLING to reveal them.

Hey, howbout them crazy Wright Brothers? Orville and Wilbur? They think they can fly. SHOW ME. (And they did.)

I wonder what the cost per passenger mile was, versus bicycles? :-)

[Dkdoyle]

480 lbs of plastic a day is impressive. For those of you looking further I wonder what kind of by products or waste there is. We already know it produces oil. This seems to be going in the right direction.

[Matt sachs]

Lets see, The basic premis here is to get a useable energy source. If we think about it, why invest in a machine that cost money to operate that only gives us 80% when we can get 100% free?
Why not use the bottles as a fuel source? Burn the bottles- boil water- turn turbin- make electricity. Are the gasses produced by plactic worse than that produced by burning crude or coal?
Ok, I'm hiding behind my desk with my crash helmet on, tell me why this is a bad idea.......

[hellosailor]

"Are the gasses produced by plactic worse than "
Depending on the plastic, incredibly toxic. And burning anything creates greenhouse gasses, which probably contribute to global warming. Which may be a good thing or a bad thing, but folks would rather argue about it than try to figure that one out.

Except geologists, who point out we'd be in a global winter if global warming hadn't taken off. Last time that happened (1100s or 1300s?) there was a "year without summer" in England, massive crop failures, and massive starvations. Stuff that changed the world order, but doesn't get taught in grade school. Global warming may be preventing an overdue ice age, but that's apparently not worth investigating.

What else is new? Wanna buy some recycled sunscreen?

[Matt sachs]

I can't tell if you are hiding behind the desk with me or throwing plastic bottles at me...LOL

[hellosailor]

Throwing plastic bottles?

Wouldn't that be...wait for this one...Just like throwing away money?!

And FWIW in the cosmetics business especially, including upscale shampoos, the finished printed etc. bottle actually does cost a lot more than the contents do.